but I'd have to lay dead so long that I wouldn't have a chance to come back here and tell my friends (part 2)

We pick up where we were in yesterday's edition.

[06:24] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Tkea a step back, put yourself in our shoes, and see if there is something not-too-right going on
[06:25] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Rxxx] you know I have nothing against you... (saying this for those who might think it's personal)
[06:25] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: yes I feel under attack. And I feel the mods are attacked too. Do you have any idea what I do every singl day? And do you also know I get nothing for doing that? No gifts, no L$, just a lot of ppl shouting and complaining

You'd probably get far less yelling and screaming if you had sane moderators, applied the rules consistently, maintained a visible list of banned stores so people wouldn't get in trouble for posting them, and deal with drama rationally. Y'know, just FYI.

[06:25] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: it would be good to go back like old days thats just me
[06:25] uxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: thank you board helpers for the Elena sweater from yesterdays MM :)
[06:25] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I am sorry for that "chat flood" as some people would call it, but I as you saw, I am not the only one who feels this way
[06:26] hxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: The fact that we are comfortable efven voicing this to you, [Rxxx], I think is evidence that people feel safe with you. But there are one orr two other very active mods who, if they are online, I do not feel safe speaking at all anymore.

Ms. D comes immediately to mind.

[06:26] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: you all nechange that subjected to
[06:26] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: someone needs good S*x
[06:26] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I know what it feels like, [Rxxx]. I have been a Mod in big Groups, and I have lef6t after a nervous breakdown. I do not want you to have a nervous breakdown or leave
[06:27] hxxxxxxxxxxx: Please stay, [Rxxx], we need you. We need even handed modding.
[06:27] axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: *takes a cookie* Well, I were MOD over 3 years ago and attacks existed always, but as I'm usually have been laughing of them was not a big deal...BTW what am I missing?
[06:28] sxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Oh [Rxxx]! You and my family and friends got so many wonderful hints from you. You are doing a marvellous job!

That's a bit of ego-stroking I don't think the chat needed.

[06:28] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Axxxxx,] Someone started saying that the tone of the Group was getting harder, some Mods were getting real uptight and insulting
[06:28] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and it snowballed from there
[06:29] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hey [rxxxxxxxx] i and my friends think you are doing a really great job
[06:29] axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I see...the Kindergarten has opened early today...

Condescending.

[06:29] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I am sure some people will regard that as an insult
[06:30] hxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Well, I've said what I wanted to say. Thank you ffor allowing us to communicate this.
[06:30] axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Only the not mature part
[06:30] Jxx Rxxxxx: You know what is sad? That people who feel offended by mods, never ever want to do the job mods do. Mods do it to protect the group, and my idea is that whenever you don't like what they do, either close chat or leave the group. I personally don't agree with all the rules this group has, but by joining I accepted the rules, and whenever I get told for a mistake, it is a learning point. Mods do rarely shout (CAPS), only if the bold is broken. So please people, it is easy.....take it or leave it I'd say.

Which is why I don't make a scene in this group. One, there are good moderators here, and with all the rules changes and other confusion, it's hard to do a steady job and keep one's head straight. That being said, though, I've been a moderator in other groups, both SL and RL, and yeah, if it's causing this much divisiveness and controversy, either the mods getting yelled at the most need to take a break and decompress, or even step down and be replaced as group mods.

[06:30] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: then they should stop acting like children

They should. Moderation doesn't mean spank first, question later. It means consider each situation and make reasonable decisions.

[06:30] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: For 7 years I have been here, Mods have been targets for complaints, sure. But within the last 6 months, the way we feel about some Mods has been less and less complimebntary
[06:31] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: if you have problems with MODs it is very strange that I did not get ONE complaint with explanation in my IM ....which is something I would do if I was insulted or treated bad by a MOD or CSR. But that is just me. Today is the first time I heard this...so? What am I missing? No one complaining?

I find this both incredibly disingenuous, as well as impossible. You had to have heard complaints. They've been OBVIOUS, both in main group chat, and in IMs to mods. Now, maybe YOU aren't hearing from the mods people have issues with, and in that case, that's their fault in not informing you. But you SHOULD be informed, and moreover, I think you HAVE been informed, and you're just being deceptive.

[06:31] Pxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: weil back in 2014 it was much better [rxxx] i have lots of types of sickness its hard in my real life i dont get out very much and anyone in the group back then lots was happy things have done bad sure new shops but [rxxx] we dont want you to go out of sl
[06:32] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [rxxx]
[06:32] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Probably modern times are more stressful. to everyone.
[06:32] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Not leaving until I make Management aware of how this Group I loved and still love has changed, and is cahnging in the wrong direction, sorry, but someone has to say it
[06:32] axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: How about if we just change the subject and try to talking about something pleasant? Just a suggestion...
[06:33] Sxxx Ixxxx: Yes! Whoever has an issue ..write a respectful note to [Rxxx]. I am sure she will adrress the issue :) and write a note when you calm down.

I'm not saying Ms. R wouldn't react rationally, but...from previous experiences in other groups with mods gone haywire, they generally boot first and block later, and second, I've argued with Ms. R before, and she's...let's say "stubborn", shall we? Because "pigheaded" is not complimentary.

[06:33] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hey [rxxx] remember me

Is this a "Notice me, senpai!" moment?

[06:33] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: so and why did you not tell me that in IM but choose to vent it in this chat?
[06:33] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: who made computers .. sighs***
[06:34] mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Come on people. We all have stress at times. Stop beating people about the head. Mods are there to moderate. Bold is used to stick out from the normal chat. It's not shouting in the true sense.
[06:34] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i have beedn watching

Beedn watching?

[06:34] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: been watching this chat

Ah. Okay.

[06:35] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I was talking about using CAPS for shouting, and that Mod was bolded so did not need caps to be recognised as such
[06:35] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: again: if I would have problems with anyone I would tell the owner. In im so he or she could do something about it
[06:35] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hands over a jug of martini to everyone **
[06:35] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: but as I did not get ANY IM nor note...this is rally a very cold shower

I think at this point I had to dive under the desk to find my jaw, because it had finally dropped to the floor. Either Ms. R is completely blind to the controversy that's been plaguing this group, for the last two years at least, or she's living so comfortably in Denial that she's got a little herb garden next to the thatched cottage, and knows the best place to fish in the local river. Because it is OBVIOUS at this point. It is STAGGERINGLY obvious.

[06:35] mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: They need happy pills.
[06:35] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I sent [Exxxx] a Notecard 2 days ago. [Exxxx] is Owner. No answer
[06:35] mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx:
[06:36] bxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: sneaks in, steals the jug of martini and gulps the whole thing.
[06:36] rxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx peeks in as i log in... shakes my head... and pokes my head back out and goes to shopping
[06:36] mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: some people dont get on daily
[06:36] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [rxxx] you have help me a lot with mm boards
[06:36] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Rxxx] is very helpful, yes
[06:36] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Rxxx] works hard, yes
[06:36] Sxxx Ixxxx: Excellent point, [Rxxx].
[06:36] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: I am an owner, and [Exxxx] is almost never online, I run this group mainly on my own

So let's ask this. Is the real problem Ms. D and the other newer mods, or does it lead from the head down? Namely, you?

[06:36] mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Then send another. We all have real lives to lead.
[06:37] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: It has no use to send [Exxxx] anything nor [Hxxxx] as they are almost never here

See, and that's another thing. If the group owners are no longer paying attention, then THAT needs to go into the group description. "Do not contact [E] or [H] with concerns, contact [R] or [D] instead." How hard is that?

[06:37] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but there is something rotten in ... Shakespeare Denmark... and I do not want it to go unnoticed. This Group does not deserve to die this way
[06:37] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: and this is the end of this discussion. My mom always said: if you do not have anything nice to say, say nothing.
[06:37] rxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: wait... this group is dying?

No, it might be better if it was. It's just a lot of discontentment and mods yelling at group members when they violate rules that again, WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING, because THE MODS WON'T TELL US.

[06:38] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: then everyone should tell [rxxx] they are sorry

Never happening. If she truly has NEVER, not ONE SINGLE TIME, heard any hint of this, then it's high time she learned how badly managed, toxic, and insufferable the group has become. No apology to her will help that. Possibly an apology to the group members might.

[06:38] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: no just me [Axxxx]
[06:38] rxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: wait.. what????
[06:39] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: read for yourself
[06:39] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: passes white rose to everyone *
[06:39] rxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i came in to just seeing [Rxxx] saying something about should have mentioned it in IMs and something about shouting.. so i is confused

It's mainly, Mm. C is tired of trying to bring up these issues privately, in IMs, with people who purportedly own this group and never answer, so there were complaints aired in public. From my perspective, entirely valid ones. And of course, the mods are getting snippy about hearing about the problems THEY cause.

[06:41] Mxxx Fxxxxxxxx: some people it is there style of communication they do not mean to appear snappy, it is hard to communicate in text only, you do not get the voice tones and the facial expressions something that may seem jokey and fun said in voice face to face , it can come across as rude when not intended
[06:41] mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: So true.
[06:42] Mxxx Fxxxxxxxx: that is how i look at things anyway, and add also that for many english is not there first language

[06:43] axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I have been away for several weeks for RL questions, what did I missed beside of all Halloween stuff? Well, if you've been paying attention, nothing. These are problems that have been mounting for at least six months directly, and two years generally.

[06:43] uxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Exx], you pinpoint something important there
[06:43] mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Which a lot of people don't take into consideration.
[06:43] rxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Drama here... drama there... lots of good sales...
[06:44] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: ok ND of it or I will close chat
[06:44] Mxxx Fxxxxxxxx: so any things to slap
[06:44] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: END even (there is something living under my E key
[06:44] Mxxx Fxxxxxxxx: and i dont mean me ducks
[06:45] uxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: it is something I myself been struggling with. because english isn't my first language it can sometimes come off as if I am being rude or snappy even that was not my intention. just how we talk where I am from. being yelled at then is hurting Mm. C sent me an additional card titled "Our wonderful [group] Mod made me sick...

[16:47] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Hello.
[16:47] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: How are you?
[16:48] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: What now ?
[16:48] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: in a bad mood
[16:48] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Well, I guess so!

To be fair, this was RIGHT after everything that happened above.

[16:48] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You are giving a member problems aboiut a MOD/owner decision about a shoppe?
[16:50] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Got that wrong. I was telling her that Timeless _is_ next to a mall

I believe the word you're looking for is, it is not next to a mall. Unless Xzavia's last location was also a mall.

[16:51] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Ahhh.... well, thank you, [Cxxxxxxx].

And really, everything should have stopped there. But no, Ms. D went on.

[16:51] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I think [kxxxx] is a little confused between Timeless and USC
[16:52] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: USC, of course, is not a mall, because it does not have shppes outside, or does it ?
[16:53] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: No, it doesn't. He owns all those buildings and their contents. USC is easy peasy for SLFO's rules.

It is? Because while he owned all the buildings in the last place, he rented several out to other makers. As well as renting out booths in his main building to other makers. Doesn't he also do that now?

[16:54] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: He owns that one ?
[16:54] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Mxxxxxxx Oxxxxxxx: Several packs of old cards textures and more freebies to find NGN [store name given, which I don't have because it's just the sim name and locations]
[16:55] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: He own the place, yes, but someone else trades there. That seems to be a "Mall" just llike Timeless is

Exactly.

[16:55] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Well, it does not constitute a mall, [Cxxx]? Are you just looking to fight?

I guess, only if you're in the wrong here. Which...you are.

[16:55] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: O here we go

You sound like Mm. C has been hassling you for days over this, or something. That hasn't happened.

[16:55] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You called me, kiddo
[16:56] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You are arguing about TEXTURE places with me? Really?

That is unbelievably dismissive.

[16:56] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You want to be blind and apply the rules your way, go bark in Group

Rude? Probably. Fed up with the inconsistent application of rules in this group? Absolutely.

[16:56] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Keep going... pour it allllll out...
[16:56] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: go on.... I encourage you.

Gosh, dial back the sarcasm a tad. Mm. C DID NOT IM you first. Crank down the hostility.

[16:56] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: the "Mall" label was never intended to penalise places thike this. This is a quality mall
[16:57] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: The original reason for banning malls dates back more than 7 years, and was meant to disqualify crappy malls selling rubbish
[16:57] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You are now applying the letter of old rules, noit the spirit
[16:57] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Well, there is something this situation at USC that does constitute it as a mall... not what you were looking at... but thank you.
[16:58] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and old hands here at laughing at you and shaking their heads in disbelief at the way you apply the rules
[16:59] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: And as far as [Mxxxxxx]'s post was concerned, being SHOUTED AT in Group for reposting something I sent to her, that is not acceptable

No. It's really not. And it's that level of tinpot dictatorship we're objecting to at present.

[17:00] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Keep going, [Cxxxxxxx], pour it ALL out, honey...

Oh, my gods, the condescension levels. Drink some chamomile tea, and lay down for two weeks, you'll be a better person for it.

[17:00] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Maybe you should take braeks, and consider the effect you had on the poor girl, when she was trying to contribute... only to be told off, IN 2 LINES OF CAPS that she was stealing and cheating
[17:01] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but of course, tell me you have the right, and shouting at people is a Mod's job
[17:02] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: It is lack of empathy, bad maners and slander
[17:03] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: And you never get to the human level when "explaining" why a plaxce is banned

Not these days, no. They used to. Not now.

[17:03] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Two Moon Garden, Mall with resellers ?
[17:03] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Show me the resellers
[17:03] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Show me the "Mall" there
[17:03] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I dare you
[17:03] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Keep going.... come on... do it, honey...

Wow, are you a bitch.

[17:04] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You do not deserve any more
[17:04] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: OOoo I have plenty.
[17:04] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: LOts and lots.

Of attitude and misplaced condescension? This, I believe.

[17:08] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Last bit from me, that you will laugh at I am sure is this : This Mod job has you stressed out so hard that you do not realise how you appear in Group. Maybe you should have a look at what you do, how you do it, and the impact it has on Group members and the Group itself
[17:09] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: YaY! More!
[17:09] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: *clapping*

Jesus Christ, get a grip on yourself.

[17:09] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Stress creeps up on you, you get comfortable with it, you think you are doing a great job at discuipline and motivation... and the blinkers keep narrowing until you blow a fuse
[17:10] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Please keep on mocking me,that is very dignified of you
[17:10] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx:
[17:10] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I am all for you expressing your feelings.

You are lying so hard through all the teeth you have.

[17:10] hxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I am supportive of that, [Cxxxxxxx].

The hell you are.

[17:11] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: only to [p*ss] on them, the way I see it
[17:13] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: At least " Well, there is something this situation at USC that does constitute it as a mall..." was a step in the right direction
[17:14] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and when you apologise for SHOUTING at [Mxxxxxx] for one of her rare participation, then you might realise you are overdoing the flame throwing just a little tad

Precisely.

Mm. C says at the end of that card that Ms. D (legacy name Ms. H) never answered. Not surprised.

Then came the third card.

[13:51] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I sent that Notecard to [Rxxx] earlier

Ms. R being the chief mod at this group at present.

[13:52] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: She read it...
[13:52] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx:

[06:49] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Please feel free to Notecard me in answer to my Notecard
[06:50] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: sure
[07:07] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: it is against the ToS to chare IMs with others

[13:53] Emilly Orr: Technically, that's true.
[13:53] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and that is where we are on the subject of that second Notecard I sent you. I think she may well decide not to look at it because the content is against ToS... great excuse

So, here's the thing. The Terms of Service in SL clearly state that chat captures in Second Life cannot be saved and passed to other users, as it constitutes a privacy violation.

However, everyone does it, including the Lindens. It's a CYA measure for the most part.

[13:53] Emilly Orr: And there are estate owners who refuse to read notecarded conversations due to that reason. However, on the ground I'd say it's more a case by case basis, and sometimes, people need to know what X person said about Y.
[13:54] Emilly Orr nods
[13:54] Emilly Orr: Wouldn't surprise me
[13:54] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Yes Your Honour, we can not show the video of my client murdering those children, because it was not obtained legaly...
[13:54] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: So client goes free
[13:54] Emilly Orr: Actually, that's happened in a few cases. The law is tricky and occasionally unfair.
[13:55] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Especially when it is twisted by spin doctors, and unfortunately, yes, it does happen
[13:56] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: But, but, but... It was a Group related IM...
[13:56] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Opened by a Group Mod... so...
[13:57] Emilly Orr: And you were communicating what was said to another mod, because you felt she needed to know.
[13:57] Emilly Orr: That's logical.

But, as everyone in the group has learned by now, no moderator is interested in listening to sense anymore, for whatever reason.

Yeah, there's going to be one more part to this.