Continuing from the Death Row Designs chat capture:
[10:59] nxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I'm personally going to miss gacha; the ability to wrap it in a giftbox around the holidays anyways.
[11:00] Sxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: good point [Axxxx]
[11:00] Txxxxxxxx Axxxxxx: I will miss gacha but I have lost so much money by just 'one more time' attempts
Me too. And if I have it to throw away, it still hurts a little, but if I
don't--yeah, I'm not a compulsive gambler, and I've fallen into that trap.
[11:01] Sxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Your not alone lol
[11:01] axxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx had some good deals from resellers on MP, never cared to 'play' it though, prefer to pay an agreed price. But that's just me. If others enjoy it and flogging the spares on MP gets a substantial part of their money back i don't really see how it hurts anyone. It was gonna get legislated against sooner or later though - not because of SL but because of loot boxes in kids' cellphone games
[11:06] Cxxxx Fxxxxx: I wonder if they will bring that in for breedables too, as people have no idea what is going to come out of those vendors too......same thing, various items, depends if you get a rare or common etc. Could be a slippery slope for a lot of businesses
[11:07] vxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Yes, I am angry about that decision
[11:08] Bxxxx Dxxxxxx: I hope DRD puts their gachas out for individual sale or fatpacks
[11:08] Txxxxxxxx Axxxxxx: I really hope it's not only fatpacks because I own so many bits and pieces of sets
[11:08] Txxxxxxxx Axxxxxx: I couldn't ever justify getting a fatpack when I own over half the set already
[11:09] Txxxxxxxx Axxxxxx: I'd prefer breedables were removed simply because of the hellish lag they produce
A lot of us have said that, for years.
[11:09] exxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: what is the news about gachas?
[11:09] kxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: LL is banning them
[11:09] Txxxxxxxx Axxxxxx: removed from SL starting aug 31
[11:09] exxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: wtf? why?
[11:09] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): Change in EU's law
[11:10] kxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: "gambling"
[11:11] pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: OMG and what if we ain't in the EU that's so not fair !!!!!
[11:11] kxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: agreed
[11:11] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): Well, it's that, or get sued by an entire continent
[11:11] pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: No wonder we Brits got out of the EU .... gggrrrrrr
[11:11] kxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: suing wouldnt happen. EU would ban SL
That's exactly it. If the Lab wants to avoid SL being banned by specifically Germany, but also, by other countries as more countries in the EU pass similar laws--this is a step they
have to take.
[11:12] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): Which is worse
[11:12] Kxxxx Bxxxxxx: no official reason was actually given... it helps to actually read the blog post and not just believe random people's claims :o
So, I did read the actual blog post. Yes, they cite it as "regulatory" changes. But if you look at current EU law, lootboxes and other gambling mechanics employed in games is directly the reason for that regulatory change.
[11:12] Jxxxxx Nxxx: The reason was "the regulatory climate"
[11:12] pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: .... ok ... ty
[11:12] kxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: reading it or not....the bottom line is the same. LL is stupid.
The bottom line
is the same, and Linden Lab is preserving it--it's proactive, not stupid.
[11:12] Jxxxxx Nxxx: It's the very first sentence.
[11:13] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): "Due to a changing regulatory climate" was what was said. They're not being stupid, they're being proactive. But, it's going to cause upheaval.
[11:13] Kxxxxx Bxxxxx: LL is located in CA.... do we need to say more
[11:13] sxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I fear the day that they prevent you from converting Lindens into real money. Because that's what happened to IMVU in the past.
[11:14] sxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I'm concerned it's a matter of time
[11:20] Lxxxxx Qxxxxxx: That sucks!
[11:41] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: DRD had already decided last years gachas would be its very last one. we had decided this year for halloween all the items will jsut be for sale, so for us it comes at a good timing, my personal opinion is that gachas has run its course, we will keep you guys informed about what happens to our sets and when they will be available for regular purchase and on the MP( but this might take a while lol ). i feel bad for the gachas markets, resellers etc but like i said on the forums, every ending has a new beginning there will be other things in the future , the gambling scene found a way around it. it might be that machines get edited so ppl can see what item is "up next" cause the policy is that ppl have to see what theyre getting , there will be some version of this probably is my guess.
[11:41] Jxxxxx Nxxx: That is great to hear.
[11:41] Mxxxxxxx Gxxxx: I for one am not fussed at all about gachas going... honestly. I have spent waaay too much in the past trying to get the one item I wanted, my inv is full of useless junk form them lol. I much prefer to buy something for a set price
[11:42] Kxxx Ixxxxxxxx: FREEEEDOOOOOM FROM GACHAS
[11:42] mxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: mooooood
[11:42] Kxxx Ixxxxxxxx: REVOLUTION! THROW THEM IN THE TRASH!
[11:45] Fxxx Exxxx: OMG I've been away from SL for like 5 days and Gachas are gone??
[11:45] Axxxxxx Axxxxxx: Woo! Gacha Death Party!
[11:45] Dxxx Exxx: all i gotta say is if the policy is see what you get, why are they still selling grab bags of mixed candy to children for a dollar across tiny stores everywhere
[11:45] Mxxxxxxx Gxxxx: death to alll but gachas!! Oh wait....
[11:45] Axxxxxx Axxxxxx: They'll be banned after August.
[11:45] Kxxx Ixxxxxxxx: THE END OF NO-COPY, THE END OF STALLS
Oh, now that's just laughable, Mm. K. There will
always be merchants wanting to make no-copy items.
[11:45] Axxxxx Sxxxxxxxx: *laughs* Auntie xD
[11:45] Fxxx Exxxx: So no more Arcade or Epiphany *cries*
[11:45] Axxxxxx Axxxxxx: They can still do their events, just not with gachas
[11:46] Mxxxxxxx Gxxxx giggles, couldnt resist heh XD
[11:46] Mxxx Yxxxx: I am terrified, I was born as a gacha, what will happen to me now?
[11:46] Fxxx Exxxx: Seeing as they are gacha events I don't see how LOL
[11:46] Axxxxxx Axxxxxx: *poof!*
[11:46] Mxxx Yxxxx: oh [sh*t]
[11:46] Zxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I am glad. Gacha's made a lot of things a pain like LL reluctance to grant legitimately needed rollbacks out of fear of duplication
[11:46] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: ha, you can still sell no-copy items, we just get to buy the specific item we want is the new rule
[11:46] Mxxx Yxxxx is offline, courtesy of Linden Labs.
[11:47] Axxxxxx Axxxxxx: They're discussing it in their own chats. You can go see what their ideas are there, but they're not shutting down.
[11:47] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: so no game of chance
[11:47] Fxxx Exxxx: Ok thanks :) I feel so out of touch LOL
[11:47] Dxxx Exxx: funny how this comes, pretty sure the selling of sex is illegal in more than 1 country but lookit the lindens coinin it off that,n before u say they make nothing, who pays for the afk sex sims? still sims the lindens get revenue from noone bats a damned eye
[11:47] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: well that is cuz those work on tips, legal grey area
[11:48] Mxxx Yxxxx: afk sex sims? o.O
Don't ask.
[11:48] Axxxxxx Axxxxxx: Maybe they see that as akin to selling romance novels and adult videos. No actual sex was had, it's all just creative writing and animations.
[11:48] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: yep
[11:48] Jxxxxx Nxxx: Pretending to have sex isn't the same thing as having sex.
[11:48] Bxxxx Dxxxxxx: I think it's a combination of customer complaints and CA's recent rules making it even stricter, so SL had to act since they are based in CA
[11:48] Jxxxxx Nxxx: I mean... that should be obvious.
[11:48] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: there is all sorts of strange stuff when you go looking into the Adult section
[11:48] Fxxx Exxxx: strange? That's putting it modestly LOL
[11:49] Mxxx Yxxxx: Well [Jxxxxx], if that is the case explain to me why ageplay and other taboo sex stuff in SL is against the law?
You really have to ask? I mean, granted, when SL started there were a
lot of things going on that wouldn't fly now. There were nine-year-old prostitutes. There were open Dolcett play sims. There was a well-advertised castle where people could go and do pretty horrible things with kid avatars. (Oddly, the infamous ageplay incident that got all ageplay banned in SL? Had to do with none of the more well-known examples, but simply a dating couple who wanted to walk on the wild side--and someone snapped a pic. And posted it on a social forum in Germany.
And Germany hit the
ROOF.
SCREAMING. On
FIRE.
[11:49] Lxxxxx Qxxxxxx: Oh! It's a Cali thing?
[11:49] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: cuz images of porn [Mxxx]
[11:50] Mxxx Yxxxx: I know but it makes his statement moot, it isn't about pretending to have sex
[11:53] Dxxx Exxx: a woman makes a human avatar, she then pays for a slot within an afk sex sim, random strangers then enter and pay linden, to bang her,which she transfers thru lindens exchange to real money, prositution without all the sticky after moments much
[11:53] Jxxxxx Nxxx: It doesn't make what I said moot.
[11:53] Jxxxxx Nxxx: Some polices are made to enforce government regulations but not all.
[11:53] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: yeah, it isn't so much about if it is real or not, it is about the laws of the countries they operate in. Porn is a revenue stream, and that is how they treat it. But that is why there is also the no age play rules. Believe it or not I joined SL when there was no sex in SL.. we were struggling to get functional furniture :D much less do anything to anyone.
[11:54] Jxxxxx Nxxx: The owners of SL likely find ageplay to be 1.) Distasteful and 2.) Likely to attract negative public scrutiny.
That's probably true. Because it does attract negative public attention. Because also, let's keep in mind, actual children cannot
1. consent
and
2. be on SL without tacitly stating they're sixteen years of age or older.
[11:54] Mxxx Yxxxx: well, it is and it does
[11:54] Jxxxxx Nxxx: Hence why it's not officially allowed.
[11:54] Jxxxxx Nxxx: You answered your own question there.
[11:55] Mxxx Yxxxx: And [Dxxx], thanks for the explanation, I had no idea something like that exists in SL, lolol
[11:55] Dxxx Exxx: it does, and in the end, every sims rent is paid to. the lindens
[11:55] Dxxx Exxx: so theyre saying ok we gna follow this law, but sweep that other one, under the rug cuz it makes us way more money
[11:55] Mxxx Yxxxx: [Jxxxxx] :agreed, you'te right
[11:55] Jxxxxx Nxxx: Same reason hate speech isn't allowed on most social media platforms. Hate speech is technically legal in the US. But allowing it hurts the brand so much that it is banned to protect the business' reputation.
[11:56] Cxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxx: it is the difference of production of regular pron vs child pron [Jxxxxx], that is where the legal line is for LL.
[11:56] Kxxx Ixxxxxxxx: It APPEARS that the US Infrastructure Bill introduce in a clause on Gambling
So, the
Build America Act of 2021 bill, which has passed the Senate, I don't know if it's yet passed the House, has no direct gambling clause that I'm able to find.
[11:57] Mxxx Yxxxx: From gachas to child porn....now how did I manage that, lol
[11:57] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: really? restricting it I assume based on the gachas
No, I still think this is mainly an EU statutes thing.
[11:57] Dxxx Exxx: its a talent lol
[11:57] Mxxx Yxxxx: XD
[11:59] Dxxx Exxx: really tho, whole things just, well, im sorry, fcked
[11:59] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: idk only in this group its possible. every other group is still going bananas over the gachas, then i look in drd and its porn...
[11:59] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: -okay
[12:00] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: *facepalms*
[12:00] Axxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i like boobies :-)
[12:00] Mxxx Yxxxx helps DRD and facepalms him too cause she is nice like that
[12:02] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: DRD we like to keep things interesting?
[12:02] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: uhu lol
[12:08] Txxxxxxxx Axxxxxx: I saw some red plastic looking shelves on a sim that were listed as by DRD -- but the name had been removed because they ahd been unlinked so it was just 'object'. Anyone know what items these might be? They looked like cheap supermarket shelves (not the metal grocery shelves) and were kind of rounded slightly and grubby af
[12:14] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: umm sec i think i know
[12:14] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i gotto check tho lol
[12:43] Sxxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: {heart}
[12:43] Xxxxxxxxxx Txxxxx: :(
[12:44] Axxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: awwwwwww
[12:48] Cxxxxx Fxxxxxxxxx: As someone who is just reselling to get rid of my spares, it is a lot of work. so I am happy for the change. I rather buy my fatpacks and be done with it.
Yeah, I mean, buying piecemeal sometimes saved me more in the long run, but...yeah, listing spares is a royal pain.
[12:50] oxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i never was to much in to gacha. because i cant afford it. only buy gacha sometimes on marketplace. when it was under pull prize. most people just want minimum double or make higher prizes with it
[12:52] rxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I honstly liked the idea some times of giving some of it out as gifts that was nice, even that I hate the no copy part, for the most part get fatpacks.. so over all I thnik I am kind of glad of this as long as all the good creators do take out fatpacks for stuff and we don't lose awesome items as of this
[12:56] Lxx Gxxxxxxxx: I give them as gifts all the time
[12:56] Lxx Gxxxxxxxx: I search for the odd and curious pieces and there are some wonderful creators out there
[12:58] Pxxxx Exxxxxxx: I foresee a rush on the DRD gacha exchange machines
[12:58] Kxxx Ixxxxxxxx: I'm not rushing it
[12:58] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: me too
[12:58] Kxxx Ixxxxxxxx: If DRD wants to survive they need to release the items as copy/notrans bundles
[12:59] Kxxx Ixxxxxxxx: else it would really dent their reputation in my eyes
[12:59] Qxxx Rxxxxxxx: uh, that policy change is not gonna affect DRD :)
[12:59] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: yeah not in the slightest
[13:00] Qxxx Rxxxxxxx: we have ALL the gachas available as fatpacks as is, and we haven't made a single gacha release since last halloween
[13:00] Sxxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: ^ that
[13:00] Kxxx Ixxxxxxxx: great
[13:00] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: believe it or not there was a time in sl when gachas didn't exist heh
[13:01] Kxxx Ixxxxxxxx: I've been advocating for the banning of gachas for years now, LL finally listened at least
[13:01] txxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: what are they killing gachas?
[13:01] Wxxxxx Zxxx: yes
[13:01] Cxxx Cxxxxxxxx: And remember, gachas are still going to be a thing (in a way). Just not the machines. As long as they aren't gambled away by chance, they are fine. It's the gambling aspect that's banned, not the no copy aspect.
[13:02] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: heh
[13:02] Pxxxx Exxxxxxx: why do you want to advocate for banning them? If you don't approve of them don't use them
I still don't get the people arguing against banning gachas--that ship has sailed. That ship has sailed so far out they docked at the next port and were able to sail back.
[13:02] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: im sure there will be some form of this popping up soon with a " next up" setting or something
[13:02] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: I had fun playing gachas... but I did spend more than I should... most times heh
[13:03] Wxxxxx Zxxx: same
[13:03] oxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: gacha is a gamble. and it is for everybody free to play it or not. even a lottery. for me what is nice with gacha is you can buy cheap items. that was a win for me. how ever i rarely played gacha. cant simply afford. it. but everybody is free to play it or not.
[13:03] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Gambling means you can loose the money you play with. Gachas were clear. You would get a random item per play. No one held a gun to anyones head. Rares would often spill out and a common would be the hard to find even on a secondary market. Leave it to sore losers to gripe about how they lost their money and have all those commons to show for it. Right.
[13:04] Pxxxx Exxxxxxx: and I'm sure the SL owners loved us spending more than we should - this is going to hurt their revenue
[13:04] dxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: And here we see the average goombler cope in chat
[13:04] Cxxx Cxxxxxxxx: Gacha machines are classed as gambling because you get a random item per play. You are *not* aware of what item specifically you will get per purchase, so LL has banned them. That's the policy.
[13:04] oxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: the creativity in cagha was really awesome. i totally agree with that
True. And some of those makers may not wish to extend to the higher-end items past this point, which is a shame.
[13:05] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: so lets ban all gumball machines cause you didn't get a red gumball with your quarter
This demonstrates a shocking incomprehension of gambling. One, no one is addicted to the "rush" of winning whatever with gumballs. 90% of all gumball machines do, in fact, give out gumballs that, while perhaps not the same color,
are the same flavor. 8% of the remaining machines mix gumballs with something else--bouncy balls, a capsule toy, whatever. The final 2% would probably qualify as gambling, because you have a chance of getting a gumball (your highest likelihood), a toy (uncommon), or the special whatever shown in the insert card (which, nine times out of ten, is in a container too big to go into the drop slot, or is already gone and has not been replaced.
That, on its simplest scale,
is gambling mechanics--pitting one's desire to win against the odds. And in nearly every instance where gambling is in a curtailed environment, the house nearly always wins.
[13:05] Cxxx Cxxxxxxxx: In RL, gambling is permitted, [Pxxxxxx]. That has nothing to do with LL and any regulatory bodies that may have influenced this decision.
[13:05] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: I was very aware I would get one of how ever many items were in the set for each play. The only difference with the gacha sets in SL and the gumball RL is that there was no running out.
[13:05] dxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Nice strawman [Pxxxxxx]
[13:06] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: how is it a strawman?
[13:06] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: that is what a gacha machine is at it's very core.. it is a gumball machine
[13:06] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: you geta guaranteed item
[13:07] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: may not be the one ya want
[13:07] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: but it is guaranteed
And again, Mr. P, through either ineptitude or willful denial, you have it wrong: the problem with gambling mechanics used in lootboxes and gachas is that it's
not guaranteed. The odds are not fixed; they can be manipulated, machine to machine, depending on scripting. But above all that, it's that the very mechanic that makes them work is what's being regulated: because
that level of desire for the shiny skin, or weapon, or vehicle, or, in SL, the ornate dress, or house, or hair, hits the human dopamine receptors in a way that most people cannot immediately defeat. This goes beyond "just don't play gachas" or "just don't buy lootboxes". This is considered essentially
predatory behavior, especially when it's directed at those of an age that cannot legally give consent to be manipulated.
And I quote, from a short essay written by
Rick Benson of
Algamus:
"Gambling stimulates a 'thrill' which triggers the reward system to release up to 10 times more than the amount natural rewarding experiences would produce. This could suggest that the motivation to gamble [may be] somewhat determined by this inability to predict reward occurrence.
"Over time, one can develop a gambling tolerance, this is when the brain has become accustomed to dopamine and it ceases to produce the same 'thrill' as it did originally. Compulsive gambling overstimulates the brain, it triggers a boost in the brain's defensive reaction which weakens the reward system eventually reduces the level of 'pleasure' the individual experiences. The brain becomes conditioned and yearns for more dopamine to trigger its reward system."
Just as some of our patterning responses go back to the days when we as potential prey needed to quickly, and accurately, determine what was grass and what was predator, and thus, need sometimes extraordinary efforts to break through those instincts, gambling hits on the dopamine receptors, which in modern society are already significantly overstimulated,
because so many corporate interests have discovered that's exactly how to hit humans to make them eat the food or drink the drink or buy the car.
[13:08] Mxxx Yxxxx: So a gumball machine is a gamling device too, that sheds a new light on chewing gum!
[13:08] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: I always thought the real fun would be to put a machine out that had a limited number of items inside..lol. Ever empty one for a child to get the one they wanted? Yeah.. many a parent has done just that. Silly as it may seem. Watched many an adult do the same with no child in sight. Again. No gun involved. No arms twisted. Their money to play with, spend as they please.
And again, I'd refer to the above. No gun is needed, no external pressure, when our brain itself is the thing pushing us to play. This is what the EU restrictions are intended to curtail, give the consumer of games at large the ability to make better choices.
[13:08] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: pretty much... some states in the US consider em as such and they are banned
[13:08] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: heh
[13:08] oxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: the most gacha i bought was from DRD. and under pull prize
[13:09] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Like those grabbing games..lol.. some kids figured out they could just crawl inside and get what they wanted.
[13:09] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: the claw?
[13:09] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: something i agree with said on the forum : 2. To anyone who thinks this will cause another mass exodus of SL residents: my guess is that LL weighed the odds and determined that mass exodus through gacha ban 
avatar genocide though country ban..
[13:09] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Yes, [Pxxxxxx]
[13:09] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: that's usually too weak to even lift the items?
[13:09] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: lol
[13:09] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and in my country we were the -first- to get rid of lootboxes in games so i belong in that mass. so blame it on our country -> Belgium
[13:09] axxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: is the sky falling down again?
[13:09] Mxxx Yxxxx: Hello neighbour!!
[13:10] Mxxx Yxxxx: 
NL
[13:10] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Yeah, those claws are a gamble, you can loose your play. But did you have fun trying for it? Guess this is the end for games at county fairs too
[13:10] oxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: NL
[13:10] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Is it gambling when you pay for darts to throw at balloons? lol
If you're doing it at a setting where the game's a fairly level playing field, not really, but if you're doing it at most carnivals? The game's rigged from go. The largest prizes never move off their shelf, and the darts are either deliberately blunted, or (the more usual trick), the balloons are only partially inflated so that at best, the darts impact, but there's enough give that they just fall harmlessly away.
[13:11] dxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You're kidding right? Gachas are, essentially, worse lootboxes.
[13:11] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: its not the same but the RL policies are not going to lighten up , it will only get stricter everywhere
[13:11] dxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You typically don't even know the %chances for a rare, let alone an ultrarare.
[13:12] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Personally I loved that many started offering the full set at a price. Those that wanted to play, could. Those that didn't want to play could buy the full set.
Sure, and while expensive, that was a good advancement. But why did people start doing that? Not because they just spontaneously decided to, for the most part. No, because makers of gacha items listened to Lindens, who were watching advancing EU law, and that was the first move that was contemplated so they wouldn't
have to go this far.
Then EU law changed, and now they do.
[13:12] dxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: At least lootboxes and gacha games were required to tell you the % chance and had pity mechanics in place to make sure you got the banner/rare stuff.
At least in SL, they're really not.
[13:13] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: I played enough to take note that commons would often be the true rare.
[13:13] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: tis what it is . gachas will adapt in some way just like the gambling places did
[13:13] Pxxxx Exxxxxxx: ya [Vxxxxx] - the rare 'commons' annoy me :D
[13:13] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and like [pxxxxxx] said, there was a time in sl before gachas
[13:13] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: The only time I complained is when the creator made a mistake and the set had dupes inside or one item was missing.
[13:14] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: The way they addressed that either resulted in more plays from me or never again.
[13:14] Wxxxxx Zxxx: Ive messed up gachas so many times, was happy to fix it asap, and the people were always nice about it XD
[13:14] cxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Will drd just sell the items copy/ mod or will they sell them as transfer?
[13:14] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: DRD was -is- awesome for allowing trade ins for copyable sets
[13:15] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: I can't say that for many creators that just wouldn't dream of allowing that at all.
[13:17] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: thing is, I don't know why everyone always has to try and police others choices, when in truth those actions aren't hurting anyone... what I do with my money, my body and my property is not anyones business but my own... unless I am doing something harmful to you, leave me the fuck alone to do what makes me happy...
Okay, sure, let's talk about that. Your right to do what you want with your money, your body and your property ends when:
- it involves physical harm to another
- it involves financial harm to another
- it involves other things declared crimes--theft, personal violence, or--as we've addressed earlier--manipulative sales techniques that are difficult, if not impossible, for you to avoid
I'm as much against the 'nanny state' as anyone, and sure, I do think in some regions we are over-regulated, but look at the harm that was done in one single area in the US alone by the last president:
- lead restrictions were lifted, when we already had an existing issue with lead in water and in construction materials
- lead is proven to cause both short term and long term health effects and bodily damage
- among the many issues that lead exposure can cause both developing fetuses (as lead crosses the blood-brain barrier in pregnant persons) and born children we find multiple sclerosis, lowered intelligence and permanent mental retardation, most of which are not reversible
- all because it interfered with someone's ability to profit directly without no setbacks. Profit was the only motive in this particular case--not 'burdensome' restrictions, not misunderstood science, not short-term ill for now. leading to longer-term good (not that that generally works, anyway)
And if that's something that's able to happen on a whim from a government that is supposed to be regulating the truly harmful substances--how much more free do you think those who've looked into the science of dopamine rewards for gambling tend to be? Some restrictions are needed on predatory behavior.
[13:17] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: How dare you wish to be happy! The nerve!
[13:17] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: DRD will sell everything seperatly like we would sell our other normal releases (and a fatpack), how this will effect fatpack prices we arent sure yet but we will keep everyone well informed. but you all also know our gachas are HUGE and have a [f**kton] of [sh*t] so it will take us a while 30 day grace period is um not enough
[13:18] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: it will solve a lot of problems for those who are addicted to gacha. Same as normal real gamblers.
[13:18] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Like in... buying stuff we never truly own?
[13:18] Pxxxx Exxxxxxx: be careful what you wish for - there are those who believe we all need to be saved from our addiction to Second Life
[13:19] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: we want to offer pieces seperatly for ppl who have not completed their set so theyre not forced to buy a full pack , and also for new residents
[13:19] Axxxx Sxxxxxxxx: I like that way^^
[13:19] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: DRD always has fantastic Gacha's. how ever i rarely played gacha. I cant simply afford it. It was nice to buy DRD gacha under the pull prize on marketplace.
[13:20] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: to ban something for the sake of a possible addiction is a dangerous slope
[13:21] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: how many are addicted to their computers? -raises hand-
[13:21] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: There was a time, gacha players had a rule of thumb : Commons for pull price and rares for 10X pull. Then that changed. Commons would end up priced like rares. Fewer playing meant for less items on the secondary market. Supply and demand kicked in... like RL.
[13:21] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: your phone?
[13:21] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: a slippery one at that
[13:21] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: christ im already getting invites for like 3 goobye gacha events. we will need to think about that i dont particularily want to do a gacha sale right before theyre banned but i'll talk it over with the rest of drd
It's a hazard, currently. Right now there's no "one" way to deal with the issue until gachas go away.
[13:21] cxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: So DRD will sell individual items copy/ mod/ no transfer?
[13:21] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yes [cxxxxx]
[13:22] cdxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: thank you
[13:22] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: well that was a long time ago. most sellers do it double pull prize or more.
[13:22] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: and that is sad
[13:22] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but not on sept 1st cause we will NOT make that lol
[13:22] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: LOL@invites... went to play a last round... second pull was a rare... oh poor me for playing and spending my money.
[13:22] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: some even ask 30 times more as pull prize.
[13:22] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Some things are just fun while they lasted.
[13:23] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Well then... you decided if it was worth it to you?
[13:23] Pxxxx Exxxxxxx: well the gougers on MP will lose out because if creators are going to sell previous gachas as copy/mod collections no one will need to get anything from MP
[13:23] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: again.. no gun to the head.
Again, you completely fail to comprehend the situation.
[13:23] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: because they want to lost money back. lol. i wish you could get your money back from the lotery. lol.
[13:23] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Better off handing a dollar to a teacher if you want that money to go towards education.
[13:24] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: How have you lost money if you played 10 times and have 10 items?
[13:25] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: I played extra just to get dupes of many gacha games.
[13:25] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: that can be interesting [Cxx]. Belle Epoque is doing that. all items 25 linden. she started with that couple of months ago. it is nice for those as me who cant afford to play gacha
[13:26] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: our items will be set for sale at regular DRD prices, the people reselling will still have it up cheaper and wont lose many sales , our exchange will stay up for over a year orso.
[13:26] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: Good to know :)
[13:27] Axxxx Sxxxxxxxx: neither can I but thats my problem ^^ it means my wishlist on MP will be even longer and checked off more slowly *shrugs*
[13:28] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: it will be sad for the creators. i saw awesome creations in cacha's
I'll miss that too. Some makers, like Walton Wainright of Contraption, will continue to make highly intricate, involved items simply because they wish to make them. But many will move back to easier to make/easier to script items, simply because it
is easier.
[13:28] dxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Just because gachas are gone doesn't mean they can't sell them normally :P
[13:29] cxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Cxx] why would a creator devalue their own work? If a reseller can get 10 x a pull spin then the item is worth 10x a pull spin... I understand the machines might be reduced, but eventually we have to pay for the quality we receive
If by "reduced" you mean "entirely gone from the grid from those makers paying attention, and left out by those makers who either think the new rulings don't apply to them, or who haven't been paying attention, and who will then be fined, temp banned, or perma-banned for violating the new rulings"...then, sure.
[13:29] Pxxxxxx Oxxxxxxxx: {heart} the DRD team, yer my heroes!
[13:35] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: :)
[13:36] Qxxx Rxxxxxxx is a mini-hero too then *flexes* ahahaha
[13:37] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: LOL!
[13:37] Qxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Jxxxx] is like a bottle of chill-pills... for me anyway... just saying.. lol
[13:39] dxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: resellers seething lmao
[13:39] Qxxx Rxxxxxxx: so... everyone having a good day? Looking forward to the new release?
[13:39] dxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Yea it's a great day after the news. :)
[13:40] Lxxxxx Qxxxxxx: So this is all because of Belgium and the EU?
[13:41] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I know we started it lol , belgium was the first to bann lootboxes
[13:41] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: it kinda sucked watching my game buddies open their loot and i couldnt xD
[13:41] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: i never did lootbox. you never know what you get
[13:43] dxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but it was exciting. untill u got a sad weapon again
[13:48] Lxxxxx Qxxxxxx: wow, bad chat lag!
[13:54] Qxxx Rxxxxxxx: I think DRD needs to put a sad weapon up for sale sometime..
[13:55] Sxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: lol
[13:57] Qxxx Rxxxxxxx: and a tombstone... R.I.P. Gacha
[13:57] Qxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol
[14:01] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: There used to be an event where everything offered was in a limited number. Sold out meant just that. Not transferable items either. People complained. People will always complain. Even if they had everything they ever wanted, they would complain about not having enough hours in the day to play with it all.
If I'm remembering correctly, that was Equal10. That's still running. That won't change. Why? Because that specialty limited item was
known. The amount was listed--fifty, one hundred, one thousand, five thousand. That many, and no more, of that particular color/style/shape.
That's not gambling. That's an advertised and posted limited edition, where people can see exactly what they're getting.
[14:02] Pxxxx Exxxxxxx: I wish to complain about having more things in my inventory than I can manage!
Well, most of us do that.
[14:02] Vxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx: tada!
[14:04] Qxxx Rxxxxxxx: I love my inventory... it has a vast abyss inside it... that abyss is an eerie scary place, lots of monsters lurk in it's depths, thousands upon thousands of things swirl around in spooky labyrinths of fearsome darkness.... it's always fun to toss the net in and see what I pull out
Usually I'm just baffled--
"When did I get
this?! Why did I get this?!"
More to come, as I slowly edit.
