but if it’s sunshine you’re after don’t bother me

Well, this is interesting, at least to me. Caution: while the names are anonymized, some things come up that identify the group this is from, so I'll just say it outright: this is a chat capture from Meli Imako's group.

[13:08] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Hi, [Exxxxxx] does not seem to want to reply to any note-cards so here it is for the mods to see. I hope you can understand why I would like to have this working. I did it in blue and pink with the black just to show the areas I surface textured but where you see the tearing in the skirt, I made that transparent so I could find out why ever single texture I did and redid was tearing through the belt area in the center which is now transparent for a moment. Here is why... Would you be upset? I know I am. I believe a group is here to help people with product support but feel as if my words have fallen on deaf ears.

This was the image he linked:



It does clearly show the issue, and the issue is baffling.

[13:10] Emilly Orr: Well, this could have been done without the passive-aggression, but that does look problematic. And it's not two pieces?
[13:10] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I do nope they can fix this as it is or claims to be for all body types. Could someone look at this and tell me why this happened? It looked like the mesh is warped.
[13:10] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Nope, it is a 1 piece
[13:10] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: turn off allow transparency maybe?
[13:10] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I did all of that
[13:11] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: when it is on, the blue tears through the black in the center

Which is very odd, for a traditional single-mesh object.

[13:11] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I textured in gimp and also PS but nothing works
[13:11] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: i'm sorry you are having this problem, [Jxxxxx]. i wish there was something i could do to help, but I am just a chat mod, not CS
[13:11] Emilly Orr: Hmm. I'm wondering if you textured the lower piece in the blue, but with a strip of white the same tone as the flare, a bit wider than where it's breaking through, would that work?
[13:11] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: it is as if the face of this item was divided into 2 pieces and pieced back together. I've never seen anything like this.
[13:12] Emilly Orr: That is very strange.

It is strange. Usually mesh templates are one solid piece with various faces to texture. Even if they're multi-piece templates, each template, individually, is generally one piece.

[13:12] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Here is what it looks like all finished so you see I did texture it but I do know errors happen.
[13:12] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: in edit mode alpha blending turn that off
[13:12] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: on the texture tab
[13:12] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I did all of that but it still tears
[13:13] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: then i do not know what it is
[13:13] Cxxxxxxxxx: make the texture a .png and make the part you don't want transparent
[13:13] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: that is a good idea
[13:13] Emilly Orr: Hmm. I nearly always work in .png, I didn't even think about the format.
[13:13] Axxxx Dxxxxxxxxx: whats the name of it? I will see if I got that one
[13:13] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I do also here is what it looks like
[13:13] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: It is called Preplum

And this was the image he linked:



Which is a very small image. I enlarged it as much as it would go without pixillating, which wasn't much.

[13:14] Emilly Orr: Now that is odd. On that version, it seems like there's no tearing.
[13:14] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: this shows you that I do know about alpha blending and masking also burn and dodge.
[13:14] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Emily the problem I was trying to present is when you wear it, the belt tears through
[13:15] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: it shows pink through the black
[13:15] Emilly Orr: I assumed nothing, [Jxxxxx]. I think we're all just trying to offer suggestions.
[13:15] Emilly Orr: Does it? I can't make it out in that, then.

Even embiggened, I can't make out where the pink tears through. But I went off to Marketplace, to try to find the outfit. Nothing came up on a search of the store.

[13:15] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: the under skirt poking through the middle, can you not just remove that part of the texture, and set the map to alpha masking? if it's a one peice you'll never see the belt
[13:16] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: so what I did was made it many face textures so everyone could see is all This is how looks the way I did it in a photo program and also just to make sure I even tried to do it all one color in the mid section but there was still bleeding in the warped areas.
[13:16] Emilly Orr: Hmm. She must not have it available on MP anymore.
[13:17] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: let me get the product # one sec
[13:18] Axxxx Dxxxxxxxxx: and you used edit, linked parts, select face, and just click on the mid section? I know with some of mine I have had to add the same texture just to multiple sections to get the right look
[13:19] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: MI962035 Peplum Dress FITMESH
[13:19] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Inside it has the maps called Specular_Ladies Business Dress
[13:20] Emilly Orr: PEPlum, oh, sorry, I typed in what you said earlier, Preplum.

I should've thought that through, I didn't. Peplum for that style makes much more sense.

[13:21] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I sure hope [Exx] can fix this. I have a huge demand for this particular item and pardon the typo Emily :) I did not think this would be received so well but people asked for it in many styles and colors.
[13:21] Emilly Orr: The product images aren't that helpful. With one exception, it shows the dress in solid colors.
[13:21] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I tried it in solid also but still the major bleed in the mid section

That sounds like a major flaw in the mesh. And you'd think one of the CSRs would have addressed it with the designers, worked something out with Mr. J.

[13:21] Emilly Orr: As far as the map shows, too, it looks like a solid piece. You'd think in that map, you could see if there's a separation in the mesh, so that's puzzling.
[13:22] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I don't see it in the map, so I noticed it had faces and went hmmm... So I just went to alpha on that one spot or face, and I went ah ha, that is what is wrong :)
[13:23] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: if you look inside the dress with no texture on or just a plain colour does it have the spiky bits on the inside?
[13:23] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: did someone already suggest masking out the belt?

If you wanted a two-piece look on one piece, you could do that, sure.

[13:23] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: Mhm, me! if it's a one peice, just cut it out, and mask
[13:24] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: yes, that's what i would do
[13:24] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: No, but even doing the masking didn't help
[13:24] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: unless you plan to alpha and remove the over skirt, you'll never ever see the belt
[13:24] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: i have had to do that many times with other things
[13:24] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: [Ixxxx] is right
[13:25] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: like... load the uv map, overlay it on your texture, and remove the first few lines of the belt, untill it's all gone, leave an alpha channel inside the image on export so it's RGBA, and inworld set the map to mask mode, with a threshold over 1
[13:26] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: completely delete it, no background, a hole, the alpha
[13:26] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: i wouldn't even go that far, just take out the belt and mask that face after you apply the texture, same result
[13:27] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: Mhm, I use the UV's so I can follow the edge loops mostly
[13:27] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: i never use channels, and RGB is default for sl
[13:27] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I'll give it a try but I had no idea that we had to finish a product we are to just texture. If that were the case I would have made it in marvelous, avastar and blender. But I will try it.
[13:27] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i saw that looks good
[13:27] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: yep i always use the UV maps for this

I feel like such a piker. I still don't know how UV maps actually function. But then, I'm still just using Gimp, not Blender, Maya or even PhotoShop.

[13:27] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: wonder how many girls who wore that would get any work done lol
[13:27] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I did [Cxxxxxx]
[13:27] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: it is, but if you want masking, and removing parts, you need an A channel, I have some shirts I remove the back on entirely to go under jackets and coats, same thing
[13:28] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: [Ixxxx] I don't want masking is what I'm trying to say
[13:28] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: just delete the parts you dont want to see, leave the alpha in, and set the mode to masking so the rendered doesnt give bugs with blend modes and hair
[13:28] Emilly Orr: Because it can interfere in certain aspects, yes.
[13:28] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I want it to look like picture #2 I posted and not #1.

But...didn't he also say that picture #2 showed tearing as well? I'm confused.

[13:28] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: Then you'd have to match the white
[13:29] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: same thing, just use the UV as a guide, and match the texture on the belt, with the over skirt
[13:29] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: well, masking won't work for ppl who have the graphics set without basic shaders checked, that's true
[13:30] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: I can't see a reason to not have the basic shaders on though unless on a text only viewer in 2019, basic shaders disabled will usually even break the UI's transparancy rendering
[13:30] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: i know, me neither, but some ppl do that, i have seen it happen

I've done it on occasion, when the world seems to run really slowly. But yes, removing basic shaders distorts and re-shadows everything. It's something I only do in emergencies.

[13:31] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: i have a top i made that i had to mask out the pants attached to it
[13:31] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: and someone bought it, but said these white pants were attached lol
[13:31] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: eek!
[13:31] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: [Jxxxxxxxxxx] to me it looks like the bottom skirt pokes through the over laying top skirt is that what you are saying? I think I will have to buy the model to look at it
[13:31] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: come to find out she did not have basic shaders checked in her graphics settings
[13:31] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: [Cxxxxxx] I don't want to mask though, I want it to be as it is shown in the second picture. I even dropped the entire texture on it and still had bleeds both in world and out. My wish was that you all would see where the warping of the mesh where the faces came together would make you see why there is bleeding in the belt.
[13:32] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: [Pxxxxxxx] that is exactly what I'm saying thank you
[13:32] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: ok got it
[13:32] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: i see it on the first picture
[13:32] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Thank you
[13:33] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: i have had mesh like that in the end i had to use the same texture to hide it
[13:33] Cxxxxxx Pxxxx: i have experienced that as well [jxxxxx], with other mesh models, but worked around it. not saying that's the best way, but there are times when you have to
[13:34] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I would re-word the description then in the MP listing is all Just put "not multi-faced" one texture dress.

Save there's a problem with that. The pictures on the product listing shows one dress with a white top, a black belt, and a brown skirt. So if that works, it has to be at least three faces--four if you count the cap sleeves.

[13:36] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Anyway, I was trying to help any who ran into this issue but it seems I'm the only one who bought it so hey, it was a hit to the eyes from customers but a miss. It happens I still like MI.
[13:38] Emilly Orr: I would be fascinated to find out what's causing it, though.
[13:39] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: LOL i am tempted to by the dress just to see if I can texture it now
[13:40] Emilly Orr: I might do the same thing.
[13:40] Emilly Orr: Plus, I don't tend to make much modern attire, I've been focusing on medieval for a while. Maybe it's time I branch out. :D
[13:41] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: I think Medieval does better in sl
[13:41] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: role play

Maybe, or at least fantasy wear, but still, it's important to diversify.

[13:43] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: [Jxxxxx] i have the dress now, on the UV there is a kind of white guild line.... if you make that part transparent on your texture you might fix the problem
[13:44] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: anyway just going into photo shop to see
[13:44] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Thank you [Pxxxxxxx], if you can please try it on and see if when you are in AO mode if the bleeding happens I appreciate it.
[13:44] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: will do
[13:45] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Bless your heart
[13:45] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: did you want the short top with bare skin in the middel?
[13:45] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Nope, wanted a black belt like pic #2
[13:45] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: ok
[13:45] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: let me see what happens then
[13:46] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: If you can help me work around this, I will buy you a big coffee

Coffee is a goodness in the world.

[13:50] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: :D
[13:51] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: Ok i am sending you the texture full perm
[13:51] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: can you see where i blanked it out
[13:51] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: thank you looking now
[13:52] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: yes
[13:52] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: it seems to stop the poke through
[13:53] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: I will export this if you do not mind and try this out
[13:53] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: yes i want you to do that
[13:53] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: did you use this as your base layer?
[13:54] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: i used a transparent layer under
[13:54] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: just used the UV that is why it has no shading bla bla
[13:55] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: also allow alpha blending when you apply the texture to the model
[13:55] Ixxxxx Bxxxxxx: remember if set to alpha blend, and not mask, anything infront of it will that also has an alpha will cause issues, peoples hair, water, trees and leaves

Truth. I thought we'd solved the alpha glitch when mesh came along, but if hair has alpha blending on, there's a visible line around the hair itself that will show things behind the hair, or if say, down the back or front of an avatar, will show the skin around the hair. It's completely irritating. A partial fix is to click the hair, pull it into edit, and set alpha blending to none, but...it doesn't work with every hair, and about 60% of the time, it makes the hair look worse. (Always work on a copy, never the original, in case it breaks.)

[13:55] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: Ok I will try this now Also try to put a texture over it if you don't mind me doing so.
[13:57] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: just use mine as a rough guide
[13:57] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: you might even be able to cut the skirt lower under the over skirt
[13:57] Jxxxxxxxxxx Axxxxx: thank you very much you are a gem :)
[13:57] Pxxxxxxx Pxxx: you are welcome

So it seems the issue might have been resolved, but what it tells me is I need to look into more of how alpha masking works, because if plain alpha texturing can cause alpha glitching (and we know it does), and surfaces alpha-masked won't, I need to use alpha masking more.