I walk 47 miles of barbed wire

While this happened around Yule, originally, it's a perfect example of "This (or something like this) happens every night":

[3:22:30 AM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Bento forces your fingers to be splayed
[3:22:31 AM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: How...odd
[5:08:27 PM] Emilly Orr: But I do not want my finners to be splayed. I wear mesh hands so my finners will NOT be splayed.

This was before I had Bento anything, and I still don't have Bento for many things. But this seemed to be something to do with Bento rings, which...I don't understand why Bento-optimized animations would do that.

[5:08:40 PM] Emilly Orr: Also, I am full of woe and regrets. The coffee is almost gone.
[5:09:21 PM] Emilly Orr: Also also, for those that have Faceblech, and have an interest in 7 Deadly Skins, go to their page and enter and like the page for a chance to win a 10K store credit.

I'm leaving this in, because there's generally some sort of contest or hint or clue or something about their in-world store to do on their FB page.

[5:31:20 PM] Emilly Orr: So, today's gifts from Violetility are the "Kiss me" Mistletoe sign, which apparently will pair well with the "Pelvic Mistletoe".
[5:35:46 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: How odd. Like, what fingers get splayed? Non-bento rigged mesh hands?
Bento mesh hands? LL avatar? MY RL FINGERS?!?
[5:35:49 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Worst glitch.

Probably not your RL fingers, unless things have gone very very wrong.

[5:38:56 PM] Emilly Orr: I'm thinking, system avatar hands are splayed, but does that also mean Bento-rigged mesh hands will splay, too? And what about non-Bento-rigged ones? There are so many questions.
[5:39:22 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: I don't want my RL fingers constantly splayed.
[5:40:22 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: So does 7 Deadly Skins sell just skins? I forget if that's the one Fawkes was saying sells more than just skins.
[5:42:33 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: 7 is just skins
[5:43:10 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Alterego has a sister store that sells not skins
[5:42:50 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Right, that was the one.
[5:43:10 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Also, ll fingers

I forget, it's been so long--did he mean, he only has eleven fingers, or the Bento animation only splays eleven fingers??

[5:43:22 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Were my fingers splayed last night?
[5:43:44 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: When on the animation pose stand, yes
[5:43:54 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: But also for me when I put on the tail
[5:44:49 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Huh.
[5:44:53 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: No Bueno.
[5:46:09 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: May try again, see if others have that issue, but it is a major issue.
[5:46:19 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Si.

Suddenly occurs to me--this was around the holidays, so...has it been fixed yet? I don't know.

[5:47:00 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: [Fxxx], you have no avatar
[5:47:18 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx:
[5:47:26 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Where did it go?
[5:47:32 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: No idea
[5:47:38 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Also, are we talking about Skype avatars?
[5:48:41 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Yes
[5:48:54 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: I have one. It is a flame.
[5:49:10 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: [links picture of the avatar]
[5:49:11 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: You used to.
[5:49:19 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Phone Skype disagrees
[5:49:29 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Phone Skype is so broken.

Emi agrees.

[5:54:30 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: http://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/18932682858/as-requested-by-too-many-people-making-the-last
[6:23:39 PM] Emilly Orr: Skins, makeup layers (system and Catwa, mainly), appliers for most of the major mesh body lines, and a well-developed male line of skins in addition to the female line

I was responding to the earlier question about what 7 Deadly Skins sells.

[6:24:48 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: I feel like I came to Alice Project as the gift was being changed
[6:27:23 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Ama. was going to have an advent, been cancelled due to illness.
[6:27:34 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: That's unfortunate.
[6:28:24 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: It 'tis.
[6:29:06 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Thinking more upon it, it seems like more an animation issue than a Bento one possibly.

Well, I do know that unless one specifically does animation work on hands, they always upload as fingers splayed, or at least used to. But Bento offers hand bones, so...?

[6:29:49 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: I mean, isn't it a bit of both? But maybe!
[6:29:58 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: If it's *only* the tail.
[6:30:04 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: I would need to try other Bento animations.
[6:30:25 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: No, because LL finger positions are only affected by animations, not rigging. Theoretically.

So it can't be a Bento-specific issue.

[6:31:06 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: So just animation issue. It's likely, and I'm theorizing here, a problem specifically with the animations included in that one tail.
[6:31:14 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Well, okay, let me rephrase. Bento Animations seem to, from the to be fair limited example, I didn't go in-depth to study it, auto splay the fingers, even though other animations tell them to do differently.
[6:31:41 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: But it is possible that for some reason, the hands were tagged to be animated when they shouldn't have been yes
[6:32:20 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: I suspect it's just the tail's animations, not Bento animations in general. Both of us need to do more testing to confirm either way though, yeah.
[6:32:31 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: The person that made the tail exclusively uses mesh avatars.

That's another good point. While I no longer make animations, and never really made them for sale unless I was putting that pose directly in an item of furniture that I also made, I made them using the standard system layer. Now I'm mostly mesh. Does that affect animations? Aren't animations still made using the basic system avatar rigging?

[6:33:12 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: That still means no bento for anyone who isn't.
[6:33:24 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Because I am wondering if it's even possible to not animate the hands.
[6:34:09 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: If I'm right it doesn't mean that at all. If you're right it does.
[6:34:36 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Well the issue is, I have a limited selection of things to test, but the ones I have tested all affect fingers.
[6:34:41 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: In different ways though!
[6:34:51 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: So it's likely, yes, just how they set the hands to be when uploading.
[6:35:10 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Which is, perhaps, the problem, and would still, yes if I'm right, mean no Bento for non-mesh hand users.

Hmm. That could be a problem, too.

[6:35:20 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Why?
[6:35:29 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Because it'll make the fingers act *stupid*.
[6:36:05 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: If one is okay with their hands being stuck in whatever pose the bento animation uploaded, cool, but meh.
[6:36:27 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: If it's affecting LL hands in different ways, then it's likely the people making the animations doing something wrong. There's quite likely a way to just make the hands act normal when uploading an animation that includes Bento bones.
[6:36:42 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Well, we will see! I'm hoping.
[6:38:28 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: So far, Aii's Tail, 10 Min tail, Fatewear's Cloak.

So a whole bunch of demos, effectively. I should follow up on this, ask him if it's still happening.

[6:38:38 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: All of them affect hand positions no matter what.
[6:39:07 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: What happens if you pull the animations out, and just play them?
[6:39:10 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Without wearing the item.
[6:39:51 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Same thing, it is the animation, no doubt.
[6:44:24 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Well, there's that, at least.

Yeah. It does confirm that it's an animation issue, not a Bento-specific issue.

[6:45:22 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: I mean, I think I haven't...STOP FLASHING FIRESTORM...or didn't properly explain it. The issue is what I thought it was when I first mentioned it. I still consider that a Bento bug, if for some reason the Bento animations will override hand animations with no way to stop that.
[6:53:24 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: And since I have mesh hands for Maitreya, the only 'problem' will be purely my male avatars that don't have gloves.
[6:57:00 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: But if it's just an animation issue, and not a Bento Rigging conflict issue (which you never proposed but I had assumed at first), then I don't get why it would force hands into specific situations. It seems you could just... not animate the hands. Bingo bango. I don't get how or why that would screw up! But it's possible it did, and since it will animate the hands no matter what, Bento animation creators have to choose what hand position to put an LL avatar's hands into for their product.
[6:57:05 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: I assume most will choose neutral.

Which means splayed fingers.

[6:58:23 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Apparently, you can't, at least, if you can, Bento may override that, due to needing higher priority, or becuse of a glitch. But it is an animation issue that does seem, at least slightly, related to Bento, or, at the very least, will become *much* more prevelant with Bento in a way it may not have been when it was a temp thing when wearing doll-huggers.
[7:02:47 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Doll huggers forced your hands into being in a certain animation?
[7:03:04 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: I don't know!
[7:03:10 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: I never looked/cared enough to test.
[7:03:13 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Now I sort of do.

Me too! I'll look through what I have for dolls and/or toy-hugging animations.

[7:03:25 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: I imagine it would be intentional though, with them.
[7:03:32 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Splayed hands would look weird while hugging a doll.
[7:03:54 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Hugs tend to make hands move in controlled fashions, so making sure they animate a specific way would be fine.
[7:07:38 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Well, then it'd go back to "Bento animations are going to make this issue more obvious/annoying"
[7:08:07 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: But, so long as they don't use the Splayed position, it won't be *too* bad, like the Aii tail's animations did.
[7:08:50 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Hopefully it will be fine enough until we can all upgrade to mesh avatars, anyway.
[7:08:51 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: If that ever happens.

Yeah, really.

[7:09:22 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: I'm feeling unless you can accept No-Mod or accept not great looking/supported Avs, it won't.
[7:09:41 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Unless one of us gets really good at Modeling suddenly
[7:11:02 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: I can't accept no-mod. I teeter between not great but decent looking avatars and just uninstalling SL, on my acceptability scale.
[7:12:06 PM] Fxxxxx Axxxx: Yeah, I can't blame you, just ugh at the market.
[9:20:02 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: http://screenrant.com/gotham-city-sirens-megan-fox-poison-ivy/
[9:20:06 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Oh goodness, I hope not.
[9:42:38 PM] Pxxxx Nxxx: eh. after suicide squad, how much worse could Megan make things?
[9:47:06 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Well, she won't redeem it.
[9:47:19 PM] xXxxXxX Rxxxxxxx: Also, not a redhead.
[9:47:35 PM] Pxxxx Nxxx: those don't exist

Redheads? Bite your tongue, we do too exist.