everything here's been wrong too long

While it's far from a new form of discrimination on SL, it's apparently getting rather prevalent again, which is what I didn't know:

[15:37] Bxxxx Bxxxxxx: omg :| whats up with so many clubs having minimum heights
[15:37] Txxxx Rxxxxxxx: they are idiots

Well, some, maybe, but I'm more interested in why it's suddenly a thing. I've gone to more mature-content stores in frothy cupcake dresses and been told to change due to my appearance, definitely. I've gone to events and been told to change because I was wearing too many scripts. But if I'm just short and going out to dance at a club? I don't expect it then.

[15:37] Kxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: ikr i wanted to make an halfin with big boobs. :(
[15:37] Kxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: halflins are 4.3 damn it to small! lol

I'm assuming Ms. K means "halfling", here, not something closer kin to a Dwarfin? Which admittedly, does strike me as odd as Petites with breast implants, but they make Petite implants, so obviously there's a market for it.

[15:37] Bxxxx Bxxxxxx: I have a Kobold and Doll AV

This actually explains some things, I think. Not the Kobold avatar so much, but the doll avatar. Being involved in the doll community in SL has exposed many of us to a great deal of prejudice, especially for the ball-jointed and the porcelain-appearing dolls. Why? The Lolita/EGL wear mostly, combined with the fact that most dolls--whether they're system dolls or mesh-body dolls--are, by and large, short and youthful-looking.

[15:38] Bxxxx Bxxxxxx: both iwht big knockers

And there's this. Even if she's wearing a perfect china doll av, with big anime eyes, blonde curls, and a dress that drips white lace, if she has breast implants she is not portraying a child. When will people finally understand that being under seven feet tall doesn't mean we're pretending to be children?!?

[15:38] Bxxxx Bxxxxxx: I'm not allowed ANYWHERE

No, if your avatars are generally short, that might be a problem. Because far be it from folks to actually take in specifics of attire, hair and makeup, and presence of implants or mesh body parts before saying, newp, under eight feet, you gotta leave.

[15:38] Bxxxx Bxxxxxx: hell my gnome isn't even that short and I can't go anywhere with it
[15:38] Kxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: im a love doll whos alive. its awesome the looks i get from women who have guys with them lol

Oookay, in all fairness, this puts you in another category. Depending on what kind of love doll you're playing, it could be that they're reacting to, and just giving you the excuse of the hat. Because there's a big difference between this:


(from a film by Hirokazu Koreeda and Fortissiumo Films called "Air Doll", credit to KPBS)

and this:


(from Iris Ophelia's doll article on NWN in 2011, featuring DOLLCOCO's ball-jointed doll avatar)

[15:39] Txxxx Rxxxxxxx: people have it in their heads that short = child which is not only wrong but annoying and a great way to lose customers

That's the part we've known about for years. Ever since the great virtual-pedophilia scare in the early days of SL, the dolls of SL have taken a hit simply for being dolls.

[15:39] Kxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: ikr?
[15:40] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: half the time in sl short = height of a women IRL
[15:40] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: realistically
[15:40] Mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Bloody 'ell, i have this same debate going on in two groups

And that's maybe the saddest thing in all of this, that it's happening in enough clubs to be a point of contention in more than one group.

[15:41] Mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Someone is claiming that all content needs to be rebuilt to a "normal" scale

Well, it wouldn't hurt...Things in SL have been freakishly scaled for years.

[15:41] Vxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: 'Normality' depends upon one's point of view, which makes it objective
[15:41] Vxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: One person's "normal" height, can easily be short to another, and tall to a third
[15:44] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: well I mean IRL women are general 5.4
[15:44] Kxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: 5.2 here

I believe the average female height, at least in the US, is 5'5" at this point, but that's in the ballpark. While there are many tall women, most women in general are not six feet tall. So many of us do feel that most women in SL shouldn't be nine feet tall.

[15:44] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: it would be nice if everything were to RL height because it uses less prims when mesh is small and makes a smaller area seem larger in my opinion
[15:45] Mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: It is what it is because of camera angle
[15:45] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: penny wrote a nice article in her blog about why it makes sense to make things RL height
[15:45] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: you can change the camera angle though
[15:45] Mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You can now

Yes, but you couldn't always, unless you were using a specifically coded device. And that's part of the problem--the fixed position of the camera for so many years predisposed folks in SL to be taller than they really needed to be. And being taller, they needed taller doors, taller homes, taller everything.

[15:45] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: and frankly should
[15:45] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: LLs should permanently change it
[15:45] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: to a more realistic height
[15:45] Mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: That makes no sense for them to do that

Well, it does and it doesn't. The original camera mapping predisposed folks to be taller; which affected buildings and other structures. But LL by and large didn't build their world; the residents did. The residents made the choices to be taller than perhaps necessary, which created a culture of height in SL for all the years thereafter.

[15:46] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: it does though
[15:46] Bxxxx Bxxxxxx: I just wanna be able to make cute midget AV's with big boobs
[15:46] Txxxx Rxxxxxxx: LL aren't the content creators
[15:46] Vxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol
[15:46] Txxxx Rxxxxxxx: they just maintain the servers and collect the sim rent

Pretty much.

[15:46] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: especially on the level that smaller plots of land will seem larger to buyers

There's that too, which is actually an excellent point. The standard 'intro' land, in many places, is still 512. 512 feels very small if one lives ten feet tall with twelve-foot-high entryways and fifteen-foot-tall rooms. But, if we're building to a five-to-six-foot avatar height, you'd only need, max, six-foot entryways, which would lead to eight- to ten-foot ceilings. Smaller buildings; smaller scales for objects; more land.

[15:46] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: which would make people feel like there getting a better deal for there money tbh

Exactly.

[15:46] Mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: If you hard reset the camera then most existing content no longer looks right. Do you want to be the one to explain to people that 11 years of content no longer looks right because things are more "normal" now?
[15:47] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: the content still looks fine IMO
[15:47] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: I've already set my camera angle to that height
[15:47] Mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Maybe it's something they could do for SL2
[15:47] Mxxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxx: it's something they should do for SL2
[15:47] Mxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: But honestly, it's a waste of time to bother doing it for SL

Maybe, but it's still a good idea. Regardless of the appropriateness of changing the culture of height on SL, though, we still don't have a good reason behind the sudden influx of club-based height prejudice. I'll have to dig more, see what turns up.