it's what you wanted, your last manipulation

And then tonight's conversation, because OF COURSE it goes on:

[21:57] Desmond Shang: hi all,
[21:57] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx waves!!!!!!!!
[21:57] Desmond Shang: please bear with me, i've been at about 40 words a minute typing for the past... howeverr long I've been on
[21:57] Lxxx Sxxxxx waves
[21:57] Desmond Shang: going to try to do a notice in just a moment, it will probably cause some discussion
[21:58] Desmond Shang: pls slow down the IM's to me directly for a bit
[21:58] Lxxx Sxxxxx IMs [Cxxxxxxx] instead.
[21:59] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx jumps up and down on the bed while everyone is distracted waiting for the announcement!!
[22:01] Gxxxxxx Hxx: Are Meeroos in fashion again?
[22:01] Desmond Shang: with red wine and truffle sauce.

Couldn't find a recipe with Meeroos, but this one can probably be converted.

[22:01] Mxxx Mxxxxxxx: sion chickens
[22:01] Gxxxxxx Hxx: :-)
[22:01] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Now I'm hungry!
[22:01] Desmond Shang: checkign my spelling
[22:01] Axxxxxx Gaxxxxxx tosses [Pxxxxx] a lolly...because it's not her bed nor her sheets. :)
[22:02] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: CANDY!!! yaysss!!
[22:02] Axxxxxx Gaxxxxxx: If you're checkign it, you're in trouble, Sir.
[22:02] Mxxxxxxxx Kxxxxxx breaks out the mother sauce.
[22:03] Gxxxxxx Hxx: Last time I broke out the father sauce I got arrested.
[22:05] Desmond Shang: gah. did I send that? or did I just have the system eat it.
[22:05] Desmond Shang:
[22:05] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Mmmmm, delicious.
[22:05] Gxxxxxx Hxx: We ain't seen nuthin' yet!
[22:05] Mxxxxxxxx Kxxxxxx: It went well with the mother sauce.
[22:05] Dxxxxxxxx Axxx: nope
[22:05] Desmond Shang: sighs and tries to do it again. i'm relogging
[22:07] Desmond Shang: anything yet?
[22:07] mxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: not yet
[22:07] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Newp
[22:07] Rxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Wxxx: smh
[22:08] Gxxxxxx Hxx checks his stocking.
[22:08] Desmond Shang: okay. trying again. I had the group notice panel box crash on me.
[22:08] Gxxxxxx Hxx: COAL!

Is that...good, or bad?

[22:08] Axxxxxx Gaxxxxxx: I heard that there were massive problems earlier today--maybe they've not all been fixed?

No, they surely have not.

[22:09] Sxxx Fxxxxxxxx: couldn't log in for quite some time earlier while they fixed whatever was wrong
[22:09] Mxxx Mxxxxxxx: replaced hardware, per April Linden post
[22:10] Sxxx Fxxxxxxxx: wow
[22:10] Sxxx Fxxxxxxxx: that was probably pricey

And then the notice I uploaded earlier:

[22:11] Desmond Shang: Group Notice Sent by: Desmond Shang
A quick note about the confederate flag issue.
This is how we got here. I thought it important to share what I can.

Des

So and thus.

[22:11] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Yay
[22:11] Desmond Shang: hm. looks like that went out.
[22:11] Sxxx Fxxxxxxxx: yes, got it, Des
[22:11] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I got it!
[22:11] Lxxx Sxxxxx nods noddingly.
[22:11] Sxxx Fxxxxxxxx is reading
[22:12] Desmond Shang: i'm going to try to get a few things done but mainly I figure I shoudl be around for what will certainly be... some kind of discussion.
[22:12] Sxxx Fxxxxxxxx: okies
[22:12] Desmond Shang: brb 2 minutes tho
[22:12] Desmond Shang: afk 2
[22:14] Desmond Shang: back.
[22:15] Desmond Shang: going to slooowly try to do some land stuff, but paying attention here.
[22:15] Dxxxxxxxx Axxx: I remember when a woman stopped in a windemere looking for land to home her Nazi role play group - when I asked her if she was going to build ovens she said - "well that is part of the role play but we are an educational group" I spoke to Des she was region banned - and I personally couldnt agree more -

I can't imagine anyone thinking, in all honesty, that Caledon is the perfect place for gas chambers. Dear gods.

[22:15] Emilly Orr: I will be polite, but at the end of the day, it's your estate, you make the rules, and anyone who doesn't want to abide by them is perfectly free to live elsewhere.
[22:16] Desmond Shang: honestly I hoped the whole thing would just go away, but, I got put in a corner... and yeah, icky. I'm not keen on dealing with SL drama at all, it's a necessary evil.
[22:16] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hell, BERLIN does niot allow nazis
[22:17] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and they are set in the 30's
[22:17] Zxxxxxxx Wxxxxxx: Well 1929 but yeah
[22:17] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and before people say "the stars and bars ain;t the same" read what Hitler thought of the CSa
[22:18] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: AS IN "INSPIRED"
[22:18] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: he even made his generals read cowboy books because he thoughtn the Ibndians were just russians
[22:19] Zxxxxxxx Wxxxxxx: So a moment of confession. I have displayed the confederate flag in Caledon. I won a car on a game show and I got a replica of the General Lee from Dukes of Hazard and set it up in my yard. But this had to be like 8 years ago or so and the thing is probably lost in my inventory now. I never drove it in Caledon because of theme but I probably won't ever rez it again.
[22:21] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hey, I can see the dukes of hazzard are tongue in cheek at best :)
[22:21] Desmond Shang: curious fact: my high school was 'savanna home of the rebels' and in the 1970's ALL of our school folders, teams, everything was covered in confederate stuff. as a kid, I just looked at it in confusion. it went away in the 1980's I think because someone must have complained.
[22:21] Zxxxxxxx Wxxxxxx: It was before my "awokening"
[22:21] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I just think that frankly, the god staffers here have enough to deal with than have people try to do the equivalent of pickett;s charge at gettysburg because it is about their "rights"
[22:22] Desmond Shang: it's probably all over my high school year books... in fact i'm sure it is. if I ever find em in the attic.
[22:22] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx smiles
[22:22] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and pardon the look of ass kissing, but I would like to commend you des
[22:22] Axxxxxx Gaxxxxxx: If you do, we get to see the high school version of Des. :-D
[22:22] Lxxx Sxxxxx: He'd be all 8-bit!
[22:22] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You have enough to deal with than have to deal with poltics, and yes, this is poltics

Actually, it's "politics". Anyway.

[22:23] Desmond Shang: believe me this was the LAST thing I wanted to even think about.
[22:23] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and I say this as one whiose hometown will probably be the next town in the news because of a damned statue
[22:24] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Thank you forn stabnding firm

"For standing", and I'd agree. For all the controversy it caused, it's a wise policy.

[22:24]Zxxxxxxx Wxxxxxx: Recently someone was selling a patch that combined the Rebel Alliance Starbird (Star Wars) with the Confederate flag and a bunch of my Jedi friends descended with 1 star reviews and criticisms of incompatible worldviews of the Rebel Alliance with Confederates
[22:24] Lxxx Sxxxxx: My town had the same argument years ago, about Cortez!
[22:24] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: because yes, there are nice people who like that flag, for reasons I do nto even want top udnerstand...but those are the people that the scary creeps use as cover..

"Understand"...

[22:25] Desmond Shang: i get the feeling that there are RL 'fads'
[22:25] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I guess your Jedi friends ignore the prequels. Smart of them.
[22:25] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I am inn central Florida, I am sorry, my rl has fiormed opinions, if that makes me a witch, oh well

This may be a minority position, but I've always believed what makes you a witch is being a witch. Opinions and growing up in the south have nothing to do with it.

[22:25] Desmond Shang: like for instance, when the avatar movies came out. you know, james cameron. pretty soon all the avatar stuff was everywhere
[22:25] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: nods "this is a fad" because certain people are enocuragign this...

"Encouraging", and I wouldn't say that. I'd say a sufficient number of movers and shakers have finally heard those who have been bothered for decades, and decided to finally do something about it.

[22:25] Desmond Shang: it's not just movies that gets in the popular zeitgeist.
[22:25] Lxxx Sxxxxx: If your RL didn't form opinions, you would be a rock or a goldfish.
[22:26] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: This is not a fad; this is a moral panic. The country goes through them about once a decade like clockwork.
[22:27] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: it is part fad, but it is fanned by people who do have some bad intent...
[22:27] Mxxxxxxxx Kxxxxxx: Moral panic in what way?

That was my question, too, but I don't think it comes up again.

[22:27] Axxxxxx Gaxxxxxx: Honestly, I've been wondering what the "other hand" is doing while everyone's focusing on "this one over here"--that probably came off sounding weird. But it does seem like every time there's something that draws everyone's attention, there's an alternative reason for it.
[22:27] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I'm sorry I freaked out at the Desmond's initial announcement. I don't care one way or another to be honest. I was just depressed and sometimes depressed person logic tells you that since you suck, the rest of the world should realize how much you suck, and that if you have to show them, then that's okay, because, well, you suck.
[22:27] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Especially with the big gold T, everything is always a distraction for something else.
[22:28] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Mxxxx] is I can attemopt to explain, in previous years, the reb flag may have been an annoyance, but thanks to the current mood in the us, there are people who use that symbol for violence

"Attempt".

[22:28] Desmond Shang: [Exxxxxxxx] I respect the principles you were standing up for. I'm sorry I didn't convey what I was dealing with better.
[22:29] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Well, I stood up for them in the worst way possible. I do think free speech is important, even in places that don't have to have it by law, but I'm sorry if I stressed you out over it any with my episode.
[22:30] Desmond Shang: it's totally ok. I love [Pxxxx] too, I had no idea she would react like this, but as you can see from the note this was bigger than who I was friends with.
[22:31] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and THAT is why you proved to be a good leader
[22:31] Lxxx Sxxxxx: This is bigger than all of us. Staying or leaving.
[22:32] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I am staying
[22:32] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: What [Dxx Axxxxx. Said. A group can hijack the meaning of a symbol.
[22:32] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: In psart because this place showed it gave a dam
[22:32] Axxxxxx Gaxxxxxx: I'm fine with the decision. Now, try to take away my pentacles and we might have a fight. ;-p
[22:33] Cxxxxxxx Wxxxxxxxx: I thought this decision was the better of two options, even if it was like ripping off a bandaid.
[22:33] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: The German Nazi party did that to the Swastika in the 1930's and the white supremacist groups have done that to confederate flags now.
[22:33] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Some of us are staying in spite of the rule change. I'm really amazed it was an issue for the Governor.
[22:33] Cxxxxxxx Wxxxxxxxx: Sudden and chaotic, but better than leaving it in the system to fester and cause issues further down the line.
[22:33] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Festering causes bad smells.
[22:34] Cxxxxxxx Wxxxxxxxx: I stand by Desmond.
[22:34] Zxxxx Exxxxxxx: I do as well
[22:34] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: nods..."I am the first to wantb to kep rl and sl separate, but frankly, hate types are insidious. Even if some "nice people" use the symbols wioth no malice, the bigots use those folks as cover..to shoot over, and eventually shoot the ncie people too

"Want"..."keep"..."nice"....I need to stop, there's just too many.

[22:34] Lxxx Sxxxxx: I stand closer than all o' ya's!
[22:35] Desmond Shang: there is a LOT I don't share with you guys. it wouldn't be right for me to, as regardless of land, i don't have any special standing. i can't go around calling people names, I can only make policy.
[22:35] Lxxx Sxxxxx clings to Des like a barnacle.
[22:35] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: And that as all you are doing
[22:35] Gxxxxxx Hxx: ew.
[22:35] Gxxxxxx Hxx: ;-)
[22:35] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: makign a clear policy for ther benfit of caledon
[22:35] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: OK. gotta throw in my two cents of support.
[22:35] Lxxx Sxxxxx: I don't even consider it a rule change, it's a clarification.
[22:35] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: My mentor put it this way.
[22:35] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and frankly, if people leave because they love a symbol, then fine, we remain
[22:35] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: And the Caledon's motto's first to themes are civility and tolerance. Any symbol that has become in opposition to those themes just doesn't belong here.
[22:36] Desmond Shang: in fact, technically, even if I am dealing with a griefer and stay anything that makes them feel unwelcome as an SL customer, the AR sticks to me.
[22:36] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and [wxxxxxxxx] quote for the win'
[22:36] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: civility and TOLERANCE
[22:36] Axxxxxx Gaxxxxxx: There ya go, [Wxxx]. That said all that needed to be.
[22:36] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and that symbol is neither
[22:36] Kxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: I put up a Sex Pistols God Save the Queen poster as graffiti. Is that bad, or merely cheeky? ~_o
[22:37] Cxxxxxxx Wxxxxxxxx waves to [Zxxxx] :D
[22:37] Axxxxxx Gaxxxxxx: Shouldn't that be God Save the Vicereine?
[22:37] Zxxxx Exxxxxxx: (( waves back to [Cxxxx] :) ))
[22:37] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Only ONE flag will ever fly over Cymru. When THAT flag comes down, Caledon will already have crumbled to dust. ( Viderian Vollmar )
[22:37] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: nods to [Kxxxxx] "I get the joke, but trith be told, no one got enslaved or killed thanks to johnny rotten :)

"Truth".

[22:38] Mxxxxxxxx Kxxxxxx: Is that next to the blood fountain, ViceReine?
[22:38] Kxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: Yes, at least it's not Vicious.
[22:38] Txxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol

I see what you did there.

[22:38] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Two points though: if this current moral panic continues, eventually people will come after Steampunk for portraying a whitewashed fantasy version of the RL British Empire, which as much fun as it may be for RP, did some horrible things while it was busy conquering half the planet. I hope things subside before it gets to that point.
[22:38] mxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: laughs
[22:38] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Second: I forgot my second point.
[22:39] Mxxxxxxxx Kxxxxxx: That criticism already exists within steampunk commentary.
[22:39] Axxxxxx Gaxxxxxx: Yup
[22:39] Mxxxxxxxx Kxxxxxx: We talk about it, we deal with it.
[22:39] Kxxxxxxx Ixxxxxxxx: being raised in texas where the confederate is flown...i have no problem it being banned...i tend to stay out of stuff like this and would rather just enjoy myself in sl.....ok said my two cents...
[22:39] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Ok, about steampunk
[22:40] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: if they say that
[22:40] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I was raised in and live in Texas, too.
[22:40] Kxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: Anything I discover had jumped the shark. Steampunk's been dead since 2005. Long live steampunk.
[22:40] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: we say "well, there is steampunk and history
[22:40] Desmond Shang: indeed, and pretty much every empire has committed some pretty horrible sins. and still is. I'm a US citizen and have to live with my nation's actions in my name. not always good.
[22:40] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Six Flags over Texas took down five of the six flags it used to fly and replaced them all with the American flag only.

This is true. Before Charlottesville:



After Charlottesville:

[22:40] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: it's not like the csa flag is an rp accesory ..
[22:41] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: steamopunk is a hostory that never was, and we admit that<

"Steampunk. And "history". I guess at least your misspellings are consistent...

[22:41] Kxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx also, has no blood fountain, has a Banksy, tho
[22:41] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: unlike certain people who appsarently do live in alternaten hsotry, that causes a lot of harm

"Apparently. "Alternate". And "history"...

[22:41] Desmond Shang: the whitewashing critique can be accurate at times, though. i've had to deal with it in the past.
[22:42] Kxxxxxxx Ixxxxxxxx: now our school district in rl is talking of changing the names of 2 schools...robert e lee and dick dowling....i think that's going a bit far considering they've been around for years and it never bothered anyone until now...

"Never bothered anyone" is frequent code for "it bothered people, but not any important white people, so we never cared".

[22:42] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: well, yes whitewashing, but steampunk has elves in it, clockwork, stuff we know never was.
[22:43] Kxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: Of unrelated importance: http://www.djfood.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/K2Plant-Hire.jpg
[22:43] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: There are likely more steampunk fans in this country than klan members and members of neo-nazi group. Probably by a factor of ten. It well could come up some day.
[22:43] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: whereas one trip to a musuem and you see all sorts of e3xhibits about what relaly was..even though my southern friends keep going "no, we really did niot do THHHHAT."

"Really". Which is odd, because you spelled it right later in the sentence!

[22:44] Kxxxxxxx Ixxxxxxxx: puts on my penguin suit and tap dances...grins
[22:44] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and steampunk is a genre, which btw, many authors hated the klan, shelrock holmes made them villains in "a study in scarlet" :)

"Sherlock". And was it the Klan in Study? I thik the book had another villain in mind.

[22:44] Mxxxxxxxx Kxxxxxx: [Cxxxxx], how do you know it didn't bother anyone before now?
[22:45] Kxxxxxxx Ixxxxxxxx: well no one ever brought it to anyone's attention until now.
[22:45] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Yes, but it took Superman to take the 2nd Klan down :)
[22:45] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: You know, maybe it did not bother anyone before now, maybe so, but now that we know better, no harm in progress..
[22:46] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I think in A Study in Scarlet, the Mormon's were the villains.
[22:46] Kxxxxxxx Ixxxxxxxx: oh and the person who has brought it up just happens to be an employee at one of the schools
[22:47] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: nope, twas the klan
[22:47] Mxxxxxxxx Kxxxxxx: Maybe the people who were bothered were told not to make waves? Because I don't think I know a single African-American who is just fine with all of the commemorations and valorizations of Confederate heroes.
[22:47] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: even though a movie made it the mormons
[22:47] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I've read the original.
[22:47] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Several times. I'm pretty sure I'm right.
[22:48] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Let me google it. My memory is fallible, though.
[22:48] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Orange_Pips
[22:48] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: now they made a basil ratbione movioe that was good, but took all the kk stuff out

"Basil Rathbone", and he made many movies that were good.

[22:48] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: aka ":the hosue iof fear"

I think you mean "The House of Fear"? Based on The Five Orange Pips, mentioned earlier.

[22:48] Desmond Shang: forgive me for operating slowly my IM"s are up agian
[22:49] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: laughs as [cxxxxxxx] has sen that :)
[22:49] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: dont let the hecklers get ye diown des
[22:49] Kxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx is talking trash at Desmond in IM
[22:49] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Okay. I just brought up Study in Scarlet on Project Gutenberg and ran a full-text search for "klan" and nothing came up.
[22:49] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: those who stand firm stand last after the rest have fallen or crawled :)
[22:49] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/244/244-0.txt
[22:50] Axxxxxx Gxxxxxx snerks. Not to make light of any of this but this is one of the things to love about Caledon. In the middle of current controversial event drama and wind up with a discussion about the points of a Doyle story. :-D
[22:50] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Hell yes
[22:50] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and ok, i stand corrected "the five orange pips" was the one where the bad gusy were the KKK
[22:51] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: which still provs the point that the Kluxers were not stemapunk good guys
[22:52] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: No one said they were. However, the 1st incarnation of the Klan did occur during Victorian times, not that anyone is RPing it.
[22:52] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: not that I would want to
[22:53] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: as staisfyiugn as dealign with them would be, as in lab rats

"Satisfying", and "dealing". But possible.

[22:53] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Hey, A Study in Scarlet is important!
[22:54] Lxxx Sxxxxx: I think the most important aspect of Steampunk is what the past SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
[22:54] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yes
[22:54] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: shopudl have been
[22:55] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and also, we admit it is what shoulkd have been

"Should", yes. And I agree. Steampunk is about what should have been. We are people, we have history's reflection, so the real world will creep in, but steampunk in its best form is about acceptance, about the history we would want to relive. Not the part of it that did occur.

[22:55] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: as opposed to people that want to bring back a past that never, ever was.
[22:55] axxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: that thnakfully, never was.

"Thankfully". And we have one more to go before this saga draws to a close.