and you can't fight the tears that ain't coming, or the moment of truth in your lies

This is from a group whose purpose, I will freely admit, generally centers around the sharing of mutual pleasure, but sometimes, things go a little...askew:

[05:21] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Are there people actually around the sim?
[05:22] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: never usually sadly
[05:22] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: oh :(
[05:22] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: How disappointing

I think at one point, this group was far more cohesive. But years go by, changes happen in lives and in structures, and we all seem to be more scattered across the grid at this point.

[05:23] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: oh people will come for discussion if you ask them.
[05:23] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Sunday evening is a good time
[05:23] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: say 4 PM Linden time

Also other times. This is a group that actually frequently has reading events, in text or voice, so things do happen now and again.

[05:24] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: omg , so bad time for an european person. But I will be there till noon SL time, if someone likes to chat
[05:24] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Well, so you should use some other time since you use European time.
[05:25] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Right, I just don't meet anyone there at my active hours. I take it, that not so many europeans know the sim
[05:25] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: how do you know if you don't try?
[05:25] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I will try :)

I hear this a lot from people, actually, all over the grid. No events in X time slot. Okay, so...if we don't see them, is it that hard to make them? Set a time, set a place, set a theme? Not everything has to be go to club/listen to DJ/dance mindlessly, after all.

[05:26] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: send some messages in the early evening, your time, and see who will respond
[05:26] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I will try that, thanks for the advice!
[05:27] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: My other advice is to forbid discussion of Donald Trump, because that is guaranteed to ruin the evening.

In a heartbeat, and that's one of the things that is disallowed in the group, discussion of politics.

[05:27] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I'm sad to say.
[05:28] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: oh, for a Finnish girl like me, the US politics is totally indifferent thing
[05:28] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I don't participate to the US politics. And I did read the group notice that was out there

This was the notice that said

"[The group] Is NOT the place for ANY political debates, baiting or discussion. There are many political groups for that purpose.

"What [the group] is for is discussion of books, booze, coffee, sex, role playing, photography (especially those pics taken IN [the group]!), poems, reading erotic stories to others in voice...and many more that I can't think of now, Lots of topics to discuss!

"Thanks in advance!"

It's not a huge ban of topics, is the point; virtually anything else is perfectly fine.

[05:28] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I never sure if my lifestyle welcomed there either sometimes

I admit, this made me curious. I pulled her profile. Not much on it that specifically points to something beyond the norm--she's bisexual, she's married to two women, she likes being nude. From her groups, there's maybe a draw to "t-girls"--a term of which I'm not fond, but it is a specific fetish category. And even that is not really out of line.

[05:29] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: So far I know [bxxxx], your lifestyle doesnt matter

I mean, unless her life's joy is kicking puppies, or something, she's probably fine.

[05:29] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: awww thats great hearing ty
[05:29] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Only not to talk about politics and behave politely, that are the rules
[05:30] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I usually naked there so maybe that upsets

I doubt that. While most members start off fully clothed, it's not at all uncommon of an evening to discover various states of undress, all the way down to bare skin.

[05:30] rxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I'm in the middle of the US, and I love the idea of not discussing politics; there's so much more we can all share
[05:30] Axxx Sxxxxx: You can always chat to me, but i guarantee you wont like it!

Yes, Mr. A, thanks bunches, you've made that plain. Not many of us are willing to talk to you anymore.

[05:30] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): I don't think nudity's ever been an issue in [the group], but I could be wrong.
[05:30] rxxxx Rxxxxxxx: including nakedness :-)
[05:31] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: mmmm good
[05:31] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: being naked is totally fine here at [the group], [bxxxx]
[05:31] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: awww huggss ty [Axx]
[05:31] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: But does the rule not to talk about politics also include the discussion of political history?

You fill me with dread. Say on.

[05:32] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I'm huge fan of history, and often it's hard to debate about it, without the politics incuded
[05:32] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: in my experience, Trump is the flash point
[05:32] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Okies, so no Trump. What about Hitler?

Why, though?

[05:32] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: anything else can be discussed.
[05:33] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: well we beat him [Axx] hehe
[05:33] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: So Hitler is fine, since he's been dead for over 75 years
[05:33] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): I mean, if you absolutely have to, I...guess?

I just...as I said, I don't get why.

[05:33] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: brought we europeans closer after his defeat
[05:34] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I never tried it...
[05:34] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: discussing about WW2 is veery difficult without inculding Stalin or Hitler to that.

Maybe it's just a difference in intent? As in, one can discuss WWII, and mention Stalin, Hitler, or the SS--in passing--as a reference, but...wanting to discuss only Hitler? What historical value does that have for this group? Outside of scholarly writings on that topic, specifically, brought up in reference for 'what I'm reading now' discussions?

Same thing with Trump, in my opinion. If one is discussing current events, it is difficult not to mention him, I agree. But if one is only willing to discuss Trump, and nothing else, that's the same issue.

[05:35] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: What does it tell about people nowadays, when you have to totally avoid certain topics? Are we not sophsticated enough, have we lost the ability to argumentation?

So...barring a sensitive topic, but allowing all others, is us lacking sophistication? Interesting outlook. I suppose it could be seen that way--people are so reactionary on the topic, at least in the US, that they cannot see their way clear to reasoned discussion on either side of the argument. At this point, a civil war has been suggested--and may be still brewing--and there is blood on the ground, so...Maybe we are lacking sophistication, in this.

But I also see a very large separation between informed debate, and arguing. I'm usually fine with informed debate. Arguing just gets...dull, when I could be doing more interesting things, like flossing my cat.

[05:35] bxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: woke is spoiling proper debate

"Proper debate" doesn't include knock-down, drag-out fights...which I've seen happen whenever certain politicians are mentioned. In world and out. Hence, the reason this ban arose.

[05:37] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: In my opinion SL has never been a place for free debatting. The sim owners can always decide what is allowed and what is not

That's also true.

[05:37] rxxxx Rxxxxxxx: If I may offer a perspective: perhaps the underlying idea is to have the group discuss and debate rather than argue?
[05:37] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): I would agree.
[05:37] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): That, and...arguing with people has never been a kink of which I'm particularly fond.

Same thing with people wanting to punch me in the face. Not my thing, move along, get your catfight-fueled joy elsewhere.

[05:38] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I just offered my personal experience.
[05:38] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I do get that [rxxxx]. And around Tump-issue the risk for arguing is very real.
[05:38] Bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: unavoidable, actually......
[05:38] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: My groups were not able to discuss Trump in a meaningful way, and they sought to drag him into the conversation at any opportunity

Because it's polarizing.

[05:39] txxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but do whatever you wish
[05:41] Bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: if people want to skirmish about the Great Orange One in IMs that is their own business - it is not an appropriate topic of conversation for a group chat as many will take offense

THIS.

[05:42] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): Which is not conducive to the sharing of sensual pleasure.
[05:44] Bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: quite the opposite....
[05:44] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr) nods.

And I thought that would be that, but...*I* had to push the point.

[05:53] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): Is it just resentment that any topics are banned, due to the causing of controversy, or...*that* topic, specifically? I do find myself a tad curious.
[05:57] lxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Mhm, me too. Does that mean Brexit talk is banned?
[06:00] Bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: that might be best....... we really dont want to be wasting our time debating the merits of TWO fat, orange, bellicous numpties, do we?
[06:01] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr) giggles

What a way to describe Trump and Johnson.

[06:01] rxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I have plenty of groups in which conflict and argument are common; this one has been a great place for respectful discussion and interaction
[06:01] lxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: So what is allowed - the weather?
[06:01] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): Really? You think conversation is that tightly restricted here, [Lxxxx]?

Because it certainly sounds like she thinks, because one single topic is off the table, that NOTHING EVER can be ON the table now, and...that's just silly.

[06:02] Bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Be it resolved, the only permissible topics of conversation in group chat are sex, puppies and pie......
[06:02] Bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: especially pie.... :)

And maybe kittens.

[06:02] lxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I honestly do not know what is or isn't allowed. I shall have to read the rules.
[06:05] Emilly Shatner-Orr (emilly.orr): They are at the landing point, still.
[06:06] lxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Then I will get them. Thanks.

I was curious myself, as I didn't think they'd changed overly from when I grabbed them, joining the group, so when I had time, I dropped by.

There are a lot of provisions on the card, but these are the relevant ones, I think:

Adult themes - expect nudity
Human adult avatars only (over 18)
No - disrespect, spamming, griefing, advertising,
No - Full Bright/glowy/bling/facelights/particles
Please avoid the use of gestures as much as possible

Fairly basic, right? I mean, the 'human avatars only' makes me slightly irked, but everyone's allowed their prejudices, I suppose.

There's a bit about the dress code and roleplaying, neither of which apply to the conversation above, so I'm leaving them out. But from the last paragraph of the roleplaying section, and the two paragraphs after, there's this:

We realize that there may be a mix of individuals that will come to [the group], so please be respectful to the diversity that you might find here. If you've never role-played before, perhaps give it a shot. If you are here to chat/hangout and meet people, don't be surprised and shocked if someone hits on you for role-playing or sex.

Because sometimes, that's the point--finding someone with a working brain for a little fun, after all. I do wish some of the members would take a polite "Thanks, but no" reply some nights, but...that's far from uncommon anywhere.

INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION:
sSo often in second life conversation in local chat takes on juvenile tones. Here at [the group] we encourage everyone to gather around the fireplace and begin thoughtful conversations about life, love, and more.

Intelligent people are able to disagree without making it (or taking it) personal. Please be respectful and use common sense in your conversations.

That's the key phrase right there, I think, "be respectful and use common sense". People were not using common sense, or being respectful, both on the grounds and in group chat, when recent political events came up. So the sim owner banned the topic.

According to these official rules, then, "be respectful and use common sense" is the only official guideline, but paired with the new notice of no political debates or discussion, that pretty much means everything ELSE is allowable, so frankly...some of the group members, I think, are being overly precious with their exception-seeking behaviors.

But it will all work out. They'll either figure out the rules, or leave the group. It's the way of all things.