Showing posts with label protests. Show all posts
Showing posts with label protests. Show all posts
28 February, 2025
25 September, 2017
what ya gonna do when the panic’s free?
Culling my email of all the unnecessary things that have been flooding in over the last few months, I had to stop and read, then reread, the title of one email.
Even better, it came with this banner:
First of all, the three puir wee bairns in that photograph? Those are Lucia Santos, Francisco Marto, and Jacinta Marto, who in 1917 first saw the Apparition of Mary at Fatima, Portugal. They wouldn't know a video game if you held it in front of them framed by a Switch.
Though I will say, they could not have picked an image with more perfect expressions. Here's the full image so you can revel in the lip curling:
I had to read on.
This is from the game's description on Steam:
But they aren't done.
but we'll get into the why of that later. How'ver, this means neither game is being offered up to "innocent children" just looking for some cutesy Candyland knockoff.
This next was in bright red text in the original email:
But a training manual for sexual assault? Only if the girl in question is very, very dim, and the assaulter in question is very, very lucky. The only way this will train anyone is in how to guess the most stupid responses on very short lists of stupid responses. So, I guess, it's a sub-par simulator for your standard high school or college party with jocks, maybe. Eminently forgettable, and by far not the worst game out there imaginable.
Then they take on the other 'Satanic' game:
Anything left to say, strange pleading piece of spam? Why yes:
There's a petition if you feel morally outraged, but...seriously, this is so hyperbolically overblown it's ludicrous.
STOP The Satanic Pornification Of ChildrenWait, what?
Even better, it came with this banner:
First of all, the three puir wee bairns in that photograph? Those are Lucia Santos, Francisco Marto, and Jacinta Marto, who in 1917 first saw the Apparition of Mary at Fatima, Portugal. They wouldn't know a video game if you held it in front of them framed by a Switch.
Though I will say, they could not have picked an image with more perfect expressions. Here's the full image so you can revel in the lip curling:
I had to read on.
This is absolutely appalling.Only if you're convinced that all video games are made solely for the under-thirteen set.
Steam video game distributors [have] made two pornographic themed video games available to children of all ages through the simple click of a button. Steam is a digital distribution platform developed by Valve Corporation.Yes, it is, but I'm admittedly more curious about the 'available to children of all ages' line. So I did a simple search. Came into Steam as an unregistered user. I was instantly hit with a request to verify my age. Okay, gatekeeping systems do very little towards actual prevention of access, but there is an age barrier in place. So they're wrong about House Party at least.
This is from the game's description on Steam:
"In the game, you'll experience the usual debauchery found at these types of parties in the form of foul language, party games, nudity, fighting, sex, and more, and believe me, it doesn't pull any punches! Each character has their own personality, story and quests for the player. You can enjoy this alongside full immersive 3D gameplay, gorgeous models, and a very sarcastic and dry sense of humor. The AI is very robust, and the characters respond to a large number of stimuli and player choices. There are multiple story-paths and different outcomes based on your decisions."Translation: it's a party simulator where you're trying to have sex with girls, play tricks on other girls, and either avoid or get into fights with drunken frat guys. Is it a game I'd play? Hells, no--there's a segment where the 'gag' is to spill a drink on someone, get her to take off her clothes for you to wash, then make her walk around in bra and panties the rest of the night. Oh, yeah, mass fun for all, I'm sure.
But they aren't done.
The video games Party House and Porno Studio Tycoon have serious graphic and suggestive content that is accessible to computer users of all ages.Really? Are they really? Because I also checked Porno Studio Tycoon and ran into an age-check page. Granted, it's not the same level of age verification needed:
but we'll get into the why of that later. How'ver, this means neither game is being offered up to "innocent children" just looking for some cutesy Candyland knockoff.
This next was in bright red text in the original email:
WARNING: Read with caution; very disturbingSure, sure, I'm duly warned. Carry on with the deeply disturbing content.
According to press reports:All right, let's break this down, shall we? The best review I've found of the general tackiness level of House Party was posted on Rock Paper Shotgun (a great gaming blog if you haven't heard of it before). And I don't disagree with anything he says. It's not just a deeply misogynistic game, it's a badly coded game, badly textured game, written by a company apparently full of drunk college guys who lost track of sober five years ago. All of this seems to be true.
- "The House Party 'hook up' game is literally training its users in predatory tactics for sexual assault, and even sex trafficking...
- "The game includes disturbing features that allow users to increase their odds of 'having sex' with a woman in the game if they manipulate and coerce women into sex acts...
- "The sexual encounters are blatant animated pornography, featuring genitalia, ejaculation, and more."
But a training manual for sexual assault? Only if the girl in question is very, very dim, and the assaulter in question is very, very lucky. The only way this will train anyone is in how to guess the most stupid responses on very short lists of stupid responses. So, I guess, it's a sub-par simulator for your standard high school or college party with jocks, maybe. Eminently forgettable, and by far not the worst game out there imaginable.
Then they take on the other 'Satanic' game:
And just as bad...Really? Read this before you wrangle your local parents' group into complaining to Steam. This is a basic resource management game for the most part, with a little bit of lingerie thrown in to 'spice up' the dry mergers and acquisitions data tracks. There may be 'sexual sounds', but there's no actual depictions of sex acts. You'll definitely see more skin in Hunie Pop than you ever will in Porno Studio Tycoon.
- "The game Porno Studio Tycoon centers on sexual themes where the user acts as the pornographer.
- "It includes sexual sounds, hypersexualized characters, and generic depictions of sex acts...
- "This game promotes and glamorizes the exploitative industry of pornography."
Anything left to say, strange pleading piece of spam? Why yes:
Furthermore:Well, in point of fact, that's the one thing this bit of faux-ham has been right on: I'd say House Party (and Hunie Pop) do violate their policies (while Porno Studio Tycoon really doesn't), but you know what an easy way to get those off Steam would be? Flag them for offensive or inappropriate content. It's a built-in system that Steam will actually pay attention to, whereas they generally won't bother even looking at an email campaign or a petition.
- "Steam sells and promotes these games to users of all ages and requires only a simple click of a button to pass through a tepid warning that the material may not be suitable for all ages.
- "These games are in direct violation of Steam's own policies against pornographic or patently offensive content."
There's a petition if you feel morally outraged, but...seriously, this is so hyperbolically overblown it's ludicrous.
20 November, 2012
second time around, I'm still believing the words that you said
I bring you a heartwarming story of what might be the (currently) most amazing fan engagement ring ever. If you're a Star Wars fan, or a wedding fan, you won't want to miss it.
There's a petition going around for Linden Lab. No idea if it'll result in appreciable change--oh, who am I kidding, it won't--but I do find some of the text in the petition interesting. I quote:
But for anyone who knows, it basically goes like this: Avatar A complains against Avatar B. As Avatar A rarely has Avatar B's real name, this is often done using a combination of their avatar name--which is usually some combination of numbers and "Resident" anyway--followed by mention of their main business and/or store location. (So, say, LL would get a letter accusing "sweetsubbeh1949567 Resident" who has "Subbeh Hair" on the Marketplace, and has the "Subbeh Hair D-Zigns" store in Golden Shoals. The Linden who receives this, if the form is accurately filled out, will put an operation injunction against "subbeh", who--if she chooses to--will retaliate by turning in a challenge form of her own.
Here's the trick they're talking about: the original DMCA cease-and-desist form can go out to the avatar name, and the business name they're doing business under on the grid. How'ver, when the challenge form comes in, because it is a legal document primarily used to establish territorial lines between Corporation A and Corporation B, it will ask for the business address that Corporation A operates from.
Now, in the case of corporations, this will likely be ABC Box Company, 1212 17th Street, South Gables, FL, with the accompanying telephone number, emails, fax lines, or whatever. Because it's a business address, and public domain, there's no issue with giving out the information, because that's for the other company's legal department anyway.
But most businesses in SL operate out of their homes. So instead of getting an address in an industrial district, they'll get Susie Jones-Haddington, say, on 2920 Fourth Street, Burnt Needle, Oklahoma or something.
It's important to remember: this is not a flaw, this is more of a feature. Why? Because the entire DMCA procedure, start to finish, is a legal construction developed to allow corporations to challenge corporations. There's no need for the challenging company to have the challenged company's corporate information: they already have it in order to make the challenge. At that point, it's just a matter of exchanging Corporate Office Info A for Corporate Office Info B--or, more importantly, getting Legal in both places to start talking to each other.
But in SL, this is not the way it works. Because DMCA was never intended to be used by private citizens, ever, there are severe gaps in the process when applied to non-incorporated entities.
He's not the only one, and it's just as frustrating to have smaller things cloned and redistributed by unsavory alts. Part of the problem is how easy it is, still, to do; but to be absolutely fair to the technology involved, another part of the problem really does come down to people who don't know enough about the tech they're using. Only since last year, I believe, was any serious headway made with adding watermarks, trademark notes, or even lifted logos in the margins of digital work by more than a handful of designers. (I'll toss sculpt makers the exception; most of them began by adding watermarks to their designs.)
When we consider that Linden Lab has, as of 2012, no accredited standing with the Better Business Bureau because of one hundred and forty-three complaints filed against the company over the past three years alone, we've moved beyond anything a petition can solve.
In other news, Google's taking on a couple different tacks for the future, in tech news. First, they're trying to set up their own cellphone network, but also, they're making an augmented reality game. I'm thinking, Idea A for the cell network would work really well with Idea B (the game).
And what can you do with mesh and sculpts? This comes to mind. For more information on the creation of that image, go to Victor Hugo's website which has a ton of really interesting details.
There's a petition going around for Linden Lab. No idea if it'll result in appreciable change--oh, who am I kidding, it won't--but I do find some of the text in the petition interesting. I quote:
Due to company detachment from its customer base and a failing abuse reporting system Second Life has become a product where its clients are repeatedly victimized while thieves thrive.See, I can't really deny this one. This is exactly what it feels like. There's this initial reaction of "why bother" when we come across yet another scam from some (usually new) avatar on SL. It used to be these were huge and startling events, and word spread quickly, and everyone was on their guard...then one av stole an entire hair line, another stole an entire sim, and now it's every damn day, it seems like.
Because Linden Lab is enforcing its policy in such a way that the act of reporting a crime puts an honest victim at immediate risk of punishment while the perpetrator of the crime is often using a disposable alt on illegal software while IP jumping, the product, Second Life, is becoming a haven for those who prefer crime over imagination.Here's where we run into problems, because what the petition seeks to redress is a legally established chain of circumstances which Linden Lab has neither control to change, nor desire to change. Copyright law ain't their purview, per se; they just do their best to enforce what they can, when they get correct complaints.
But for anyone who knows, it basically goes like this: Avatar A complains against Avatar B. As Avatar A rarely has Avatar B's real name, this is often done using a combination of their avatar name--which is usually some combination of numbers and "Resident" anyway--followed by mention of their main business and/or store location. (So, say, LL would get a letter accusing "sweetsubbeh1949567 Resident" who has "Subbeh Hair" on the Marketplace, and has the "Subbeh Hair D-Zigns" store in Golden Shoals. The Linden who receives this, if the form is accurately filled out, will put an operation injunction against "subbeh", who--if she chooses to--will retaliate by turning in a challenge form of her own.
Here's the trick they're talking about: the original DMCA cease-and-desist form can go out to the avatar name, and the business name they're doing business under on the grid. How'ver, when the challenge form comes in, because it is a legal document primarily used to establish territorial lines between Corporation A and Corporation B, it will ask for the business address that Corporation A operates from.
Now, in the case of corporations, this will likely be ABC Box Company, 1212 17th Street, South Gables, FL, with the accompanying telephone number, emails, fax lines, or whatever. Because it's a business address, and public domain, there's no issue with giving out the information, because that's for the other company's legal department anyway.
But most businesses in SL operate out of their homes. So instead of getting an address in an industrial district, they'll get Susie Jones-Haddington, say, on 2920 Fourth Street, Burnt Needle, Oklahoma or something.
It's important to remember: this is not a flaw, this is more of a feature. Why? Because the entire DMCA procedure, start to finish, is a legal construction developed to allow corporations to challenge corporations. There's no need for the challenging company to have the challenged company's corporate information: they already have it in order to make the challenge. At that point, it's just a matter of exchanging Corporate Office Info A for Corporate Office Info B--or, more importantly, getting Legal in both places to start talking to each other.
But in SL, this is not the way it works. Because DMCA was never intended to be used by private citizens, ever, there are severe gaps in the process when applied to non-incorporated entities.
After high profile cases showing Linden Lab refusing to reimburse a customer for loss of funds due to the company's failure to address this new crime wave, or their jump to permanently ban a very prominent designer from his intellectual property, many victims are refusing to share their own stories, allowing the criminals more freedom to victimize Linden Lab customers while growing even more confident that they will never be punished for their crimes.I know about Maxwell Graf's unhappiness with just that, to the point where he eventually returned his sim in utter frustration because it seemed like a poor investment to pay a company for a section of virtual real estate with zero safeguards against IP infringement.
He's not the only one, and it's just as frustrating to have smaller things cloned and redistributed by unsavory alts. Part of the problem is how easy it is, still, to do; but to be absolutely fair to the technology involved, another part of the problem really does come down to people who don't know enough about the tech they're using. Only since last year, I believe, was any serious headway made with adding watermarks, trademark notes, or even lifted logos in the margins of digital work by more than a handful of designers. (I'll toss sculpt makers the exception; most of them began by adding watermarks to their designs.)
When customers of Linden Lab are harmed by another's violation of the corporation's TOS, the company's customer service is unacceptable, telling those who support Linden Lab to file an ineffective abuse report. If a customer reports a crime via an abuse report, they risk being treated like a criminal themselves or being banned from their own intellectual property without any explanation. The company refuses to reimburse customers for funds lost due to the fact that the corporation is negligent when it comes to enforcing its own terms of service.While I understand the upset--and even the anger--the petition writers have, this is not the way to accomplish things. I think it's really going to come down to another major law suit, with a ton of bad press attached, for the Lindens to wake up and address some of these issues.
When we consider that Linden Lab has, as of 2012, no accredited standing with the Better Business Bureau because of one hundred and forty-three complaints filed against the company over the past three years alone, we've moved beyond anything a petition can solve.
In other news, Google's taking on a couple different tacks for the future, in tech news. First, they're trying to set up their own cellphone network, but also, they're making an augmented reality game. I'm thinking, Idea A for the cell network would work really well with Idea B (the game).
And what can you do with mesh and sculpts? This comes to mind. For more information on the creation of that image, go to Victor Hugo's website which has a ton of really interesting details.
12 September, 2012
time has no time for us anymore
[Broadcast] Hostillian: For the record, Lord Recluse was going to conquer Paragon. Just an FYI for all of you.
Well, at least we know.
Skipping from City to random Champions conversation...
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: Would anyone be able to sell me Fire Flight Travel Power?
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: You can't sell travel powers.
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Uh... Fire Flight is a standard power.
So, this is the breakdown for the uninitiated. In Champions Online, there are travel powers, essentially different ways superheroes can use to get around the city. Things like flight, super-jumping, super-fast running...In Champions they get occasionally more arcane: things like traveling around as a puddle of ooze, or dissolving into a stream of black scarab beetles and using their multiple legs to move you places. There's also a fire flight power, which is what it says it is--flight, while on fire.
[Zone #3] Network@-The-Mighty-One: I will sell you that Flight tp, just give me your name, bank details.. credit card.. etc..
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: For gold yes
He still seemed to be missing the point. It's a travel power, it can only be unlocked at a certain level, or purchased from the C-Store with the in-game token currency, the Zen.
[Zone #3] Gloom Beast@misterhammermk1: I"m gold, just got the mission to come here, and it's empty
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: There's no gold in this game.
Now, this was a fairly random comment, with something that doesn't make much sense as a response. But just to differentiate: there are two levels of player, since Champions went free-to-play: silver (which is everyone who doesn't subscribe) and gold (which indicates the subscribers). Gold, obviously, gets more benefits--they get a monthly Zen stipend, they get certain for-pay abilities for free, they have more costume options and more travel powers available.
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: Subscribers
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: There are resources, Questionite, Zen, and recognition.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: holy crap... a technicality nazi, and he still gets the context wrong
He does seem to be, yes. But I'd also point out that beyond the simple subscribers notice, there is gold in the game--of a sort. Beyond the Zen (which has to be purchased with large amounts of Questionite, earned through missions, or from the cash shop, for actual RL currency), there are various forms of "recognition" points--for those who play City of Heroes, that's similar to the various forms of "merits" handed out--as well as Questionite (earned through completing boss-level fights), and the three trade currencies.
[Zone #4] Core@Ashlocke: Gold, Nilver and Loppers
Yeah, that's the somewhat amusing thing. There are three listings for in-game coinage: G coins (which are called gold, and are gold-colored), N coins (which are silver) and L coins (which are copper). Rather than make it something simple and understandable--gold/silver/copper--they went with gold as gold, silver as N coins, and copper as L coins. Hence, gold, nilver and lopper. Well, what else are we to call them?
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: gold as in gold sub, as in NOT silver, was the context
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: So i guess no ones selling me FireFlight
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Because it's not possible.
[Zone #4] Deep Cut@preachmore: u cannot sell travel powers apart dark speed wich is a device
Well...yeah. Because Dark Speed is a device that makes the hero run fast, it's not a travel power, per se; it's a device assist.
But DarkFire still doesn't quite seem to understand.
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: I reckon somebody would if they could, but you can't trade powers.
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: i'm trying to get questionite
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: By that response, would seem like you were 100% oblivious to gold being a subscription term, hence the correction would be moot anyway
I suppose that's sort of fair, at least--why bother to separate out what he's trying to say, when what he is saying, understandably, is wrong in the first place?
Still, now it gets even more confusing: he's trying to buy a travel power he'd have to pay Zen or subscribe as a Gold player to get, with gold or Questionite? Really? Does he even know how Questionite is given out in the game?
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: most of the surveys you have to pay for anyway
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: Half of them put a nice virus on your computer.
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: I did one free one but didn't get any zen
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: the surveys are a joke
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: yesh
On that, at least, we're in agreement: the current survey structure through Peanut Labs seems to be less than reliable. Think this through: Questionite in game currently goes for between 165 and 180 Questionite, per Zen. It's vastly inflated, which is odd, because Questionite is occasionally annoying to get. One would think there'd be a switch in priorities--more Zen given per Questionite, because Questionite can really only be earned by completing a series of daily missions, most of which require either time or moderately high levels to beat.
Unfortunately, that's not the case, because regardless of how annoying it can be to earn, Zen can only be "earned" by being a Gold subscriber, or by paying actual RL funds to get it. So, Zen becomes the premium acquisition.
Bring this back to Peanut Labs. Peanut Labs goes by the perimeters given by the game. The only other game I've dealt with that uses them was Runes of Magic. And, in Runes, it was fairly clearly stated up-front which offers would give what amounts of diamonds, but I only remember a couple of times where an offer said they'd pay out, and then didn't.
Contrast this with Champions Online, who seem to have given Peanut Labs no controls to operate within. Thus, there's a lot of offers that are bugged--id est, that say they're going to pay out Zen, and never do. There's even more offers that are thinly disguised (and sometimes not so thinly disguised) attempts to gain as much personal information as possible from the player--while still never paying out Zen for the cack-handed attempts. At this point, when the surveys are discussed in world, seasoned players generally advise new players not to do the surveys.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: You have to give them answers they want to be given the zen
True, which is the case with most surveys, but in the case of Peanut Labs, it's not even that. It's still more that the "surveys" offered are actual scams, and they won't get you Zen, they'll simply get you hacked.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: Not every offer actually gives you the zen it's supposed to. Which sucks.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: they put it that way so u have to pay...more
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: But they only give you 3-5 zen...
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: 3 zen?
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: still better than no zen
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: For videos, yes.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: ANd that's worth 3 zen to you? Do you know how many 15 second videos you'd need to buy a costume pack?
Again, let's break this down. A standard speciality costume pack costs 475 Zen. Watching video offers (mostly advertisements for services or commercials for products) gains you 3 to 5 Zen per each video watched--and that's if you get an offer that pays out.
Assume that all video offers pay out that 3 Zen standard. You'd have to watch 158 separate videos (and all videos run between 30 seconds and a minute and a half on average). That works out to, what, about two days of video time?
It's cheaper all the way around just to buy the damned Zen.
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: play the video, turn the volume down low. (not on mute or it won't count) and play C.O.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: i really don't get why companies are "trolling" for advertising schemes
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: It makes you want to buy points
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: Which they then make money
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: you only watch an ad by choice, for a few coins, and they're the bad guys?
In a limited sense, yes. Because Cryptic/Perfect World Entertainment put no restrictions on the types of offers they wanted to be associated with their game, they get a mish-mash of advertising vids, surveys wherein the survey taker must pony up financial info, or actually purchase something, just to finish the survey, and outright graft for player info.
Peanut Labs is not an ethical company. But they do (reasonably) curtail their obvious bids for player data if told by the hiring firm paying their service fees. So yes, I do think Perfect World is at fault for not specifying these controls.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: Okay, wise guy. How many videos are up at a time? 5, maybe 6? A day.
That's the other problem. We can't simply take a day, watch thirty videos, then get on with our lives--pushing aside the simple time sink that would be, they never put that many videos up at one time, because they want to drive players to the payout offers, over the 30-second commercial ones.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: That's 32 days.
Accounting for a standard five videos per day, yeah. Again, it's far cheaper to just buy Zen in the cash shop.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: Yea i sure have the patience and time to watch those stupid videos
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: Because it -WILL NEVER- be fixed. They are focusing on PWE games and they are updating sto.. Why? because STO makes money.
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Hands up anyone in this conversation besides me that was part of the Beta.
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: This game doesn't make as much money as STO. e.g. why they don't really give two craps about this game atm.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: Who cares if youve been playing since beta?
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Well, anyone who cares about accuracy in the context of what it was before PWE?
I find this fascinating--remember, these aren't the new players to Champions, these are established players, some subscribers even. Yet while in City of Heroes, there's a built-in respect for people who beta-tested the game, in Champions, that seems to be the set-up for instant contempt on the part of the player base, or at least scattered bits of the player base. Why?
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: CO has has bugs forever, even before PWE took over
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: people just tend to notice the bugs more, because they never get fixed to it's everwhere and not just in few places now
Can anyone say, Second Life? I knew you could.
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Here's a thought: if you hate it so much, go play DCUO. All you're doing here is polluting bandwidth.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: No one said u have to buy em, duh
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: Well I think our trolling has kept Shen from his delightful game of Fanwankery: The Sony Edition.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: Well i would suggest every player that wants CO improved write a letter and send it a copy to PWI HQ and Cryptic head office, writing a letter still has more impact to date
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: They dont listen, skrcarkden
[Zone] Nicole@sngl8: Wait, what's this "writing" and "letter" thing?
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Well, they certainly don't listen to people complaining in Zone about it.
Rarely if ever.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: Im opening your eyes, not complaining
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: and Im telling you my opinion
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: No, you're suffering from confirmation bias.
It's possible, but it's more likely he's just saying Cryptic and Perfect World are as disconnected as the Lindens are.
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: No you're complaining bro.
That too.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: Well just one person sending a letter def won't mean much
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: The freedom of speech, ever heard of it?
Okay, again, for the folks in the cheap seats--it's a privately-operated virtual server running a game. There ARE no "free speech" issues, because there is no free speech preservation for a video game.
Okay? Okay. Moving on.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: Nicole, it's an ancient method of transfering data wherein one person scratches graphite onto a piece of paper, and then sends it to another, who reads the scratches.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: but if lots of people do it, they might take more notice
True, which is what we're hoping with City of Heroes. (To that end, more fun news--today, we gave the entirety of the Paragon Studios former staff dinner out. And there's more activities in-game planned for later in the week, and the week after.)
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: You're free to your opinion. Just like I'm free to point out when you're ignoring everything that contradicts it.
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: Yes the freedom of speech allows all people the right to voice their opinions freely, but you lost your credibility when you started comparing Champs to DCUO.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: Only the truly ancient, or anyone over the age of 20, remembers writing letters.
Well, I guess I fit both at this point--hells, I was ancient at age eleven--but come on, has letter-writing fallen that much out of favor? Why?
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: why? is it bad to compare
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: The reason why CoD and ME's fanbase age average is 12-14 is because they're susceptible to the aggressive advertising. That includes - but isn't limited to - bribing reviewers, hiring employees to -
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: - censor bad comments left on their videos, giving their employees the right to lash out at consumers who complain.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: COD Has a...meh community
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: like idk. its like all the retards are gathered in one game
Well, but that's mostly just the player base. What "Deeplove" is talking about is actual employees that are hired to run interference for Call of Duty's shortcomings.
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: In short, they control the media that is centered around their game and effectively lead what they believe is a fanbase.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: That is corruption, my friend
Actually, no, that's closer to aggressive marketing. Corruption would be when they started killing players who spoke out; but it's still possible to say negative things about Call of Duty, or the studio employed to run it.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: HELLO GUYS
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: DO U SPEAK MY LANGUAGE?
[Zone #3] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: No
[Zone #3] Dragonstorm@Crashbang: I can't read caps
Brilliantly well put, Dragonstorm. Kudos to you.
[Zone #4] Light cygnus@frodo56140: DO you have any problems?
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: yeah i have a problem
[Zone #3] Dragonstorm@Crashbang: yes, a keyboard that cant spell
Eh, I think that's more user error, really. Don't blame the keyboard.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: dragonstorm nobody does da proper engalish in internetz
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: righting proper grammar is for english homewor
"Homewor"? "HOMEWOR"??? You're too lazy even to end words properly??
[Zone #3] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: you don't write grammar, you use it
EXACTLY.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: i dont talk like i type
Thank God.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: fingers and vocal cords not same thing
I give up. Because obviously she's missed the point of the entire conversation BEING WRITTEN DOWN, WITH NO ONE SPEAKING...
[Zone #3] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: who said anything about you talking? when it was all written
HA! I wasn't the only one to notice that!
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: bunch of grammar grandmas
I'm sure you meant that as an insult, dearie, but I take it as a mark of pride.
[Zone #3] Blackjack@Inspektor_Herring: Is there a superhero based on semantics anywhere?
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: wat is semantics
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: alt tab and google it for me
[Zone #2] Reaper@ReaperOxide: This is a chat, not a phone. You can at least try.
Yeah, because at this point, she's sounding almost too lazy to breathe in and out.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: no reaper
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: I won't.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: No.
So...not just lazy, but actively embracing being stupid? Go her. Proud day for the advancement of feminine intelligence, people.
And then, one day later:
[Zone #3] Azarath@Akizia: Oh no...shes singing again
[Zone #3] Azarath@Akizia: someone shoot her
[Zone #2] Storm Hawk@kbit08: She's singing for YOU!
[Zone #3] Azarath@Akizia: I have the gun if someone has the bullets
I'd insert something in here about how violence against women begets little beyond more violence, even in the virtual sense, but...she's a really, really bad singer. It's hard not to agree.
And...
[Zone #1] Rough and Tumble@Cronicle: It is getting wto wheere a redheaded Cyber girl cna't get a dany descent girl talk in this game!!*pouts*
Well, if that's how you talk normally, I don't imagine so. More from the trenches later.
Well, at least we know.
Skipping from City to random Champions conversation...
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: Would anyone be able to sell me Fire Flight Travel Power?
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: You can't sell travel powers.
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Uh... Fire Flight is a standard power.
So, this is the breakdown for the uninitiated. In Champions Online, there are travel powers, essentially different ways superheroes can use to get around the city. Things like flight, super-jumping, super-fast running...In Champions they get occasionally more arcane: things like traveling around as a puddle of ooze, or dissolving into a stream of black scarab beetles and using their multiple legs to move you places. There's also a fire flight power, which is what it says it is--flight, while on fire.
[Zone #3] Network@-The-Mighty-One: I will sell you that Flight tp, just give me your name, bank details.. credit card.. etc..
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: For gold yes
He still seemed to be missing the point. It's a travel power, it can only be unlocked at a certain level, or purchased from the C-Store with the in-game token currency, the Zen.
[Zone #3] Gloom Beast@misterhammermk1: I"m gold, just got the mission to come here, and it's empty
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: There's no gold in this game.
Now, this was a fairly random comment, with something that doesn't make much sense as a response. But just to differentiate: there are two levels of player, since Champions went free-to-play: silver (which is everyone who doesn't subscribe) and gold (which indicates the subscribers). Gold, obviously, gets more benefits--they get a monthly Zen stipend, they get certain for-pay abilities for free, they have more costume options and more travel powers available.
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: Subscribers
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: There are resources, Questionite, Zen, and recognition.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: holy crap... a technicality nazi, and he still gets the context wrong
He does seem to be, yes. But I'd also point out that beyond the simple subscribers notice, there is gold in the game--of a sort. Beyond the Zen (which has to be purchased with large amounts of Questionite, earned through missions, or from the cash shop, for actual RL currency), there are various forms of "recognition" points--for those who play City of Heroes, that's similar to the various forms of "merits" handed out--as well as Questionite (earned through completing boss-level fights), and the three trade currencies.
[Zone #4] Core@Ashlocke: Gold, Nilver and Loppers
Yeah, that's the somewhat amusing thing. There are three listings for in-game coinage: G coins (which are called gold, and are gold-colored), N coins (which are silver) and L coins (which are copper). Rather than make it something simple and understandable--gold/silver/copper--they went with gold as gold, silver as N coins, and copper as L coins. Hence, gold, nilver and lopper. Well, what else are we to call them?
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: gold as in gold sub, as in NOT silver, was the context
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: So i guess no ones selling me FireFlight
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Because it's not possible.
[Zone #4] Deep Cut@preachmore: u cannot sell travel powers apart dark speed wich is a device
Well...yeah. Because Dark Speed is a device that makes the hero run fast, it's not a travel power, per se; it's a device assist.
But DarkFire still doesn't quite seem to understand.
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: I reckon somebody would if they could, but you can't trade powers.
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: i'm trying to get questionite
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: By that response, would seem like you were 100% oblivious to gold being a subscription term, hence the correction would be moot anyway
I suppose that's sort of fair, at least--why bother to separate out what he's trying to say, when what he is saying, understandably, is wrong in the first place?
Still, now it gets even more confusing: he's trying to buy a travel power he'd have to pay Zen or subscribe as a Gold player to get, with gold or Questionite? Really? Does he even know how Questionite is given out in the game?
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: most of the surveys you have to pay for anyway
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: Half of them put a nice virus on your computer.
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: I did one free one but didn't get any zen
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: the surveys are a joke
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: yesh
On that, at least, we're in agreement: the current survey structure through Peanut Labs seems to be less than reliable. Think this through: Questionite in game currently goes for between 165 and 180 Questionite, per Zen. It's vastly inflated, which is odd, because Questionite is occasionally annoying to get. One would think there'd be a switch in priorities--more Zen given per Questionite, because Questionite can really only be earned by completing a series of daily missions, most of which require either time or moderately high levels to beat.
Unfortunately, that's not the case, because regardless of how annoying it can be to earn, Zen can only be "earned" by being a Gold subscriber, or by paying actual RL funds to get it. So, Zen becomes the premium acquisition.
Bring this back to Peanut Labs. Peanut Labs goes by the perimeters given by the game. The only other game I've dealt with that uses them was Runes of Magic. And, in Runes, it was fairly clearly stated up-front which offers would give what amounts of diamonds, but I only remember a couple of times where an offer said they'd pay out, and then didn't.
Contrast this with Champions Online, who seem to have given Peanut Labs no controls to operate within. Thus, there's a lot of offers that are bugged--id est, that say they're going to pay out Zen, and never do. There's even more offers that are thinly disguised (and sometimes not so thinly disguised) attempts to gain as much personal information as possible from the player--while still never paying out Zen for the cack-handed attempts. At this point, when the surveys are discussed in world, seasoned players generally advise new players not to do the surveys.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: You have to give them answers they want to be given the zen
True, which is the case with most surveys, but in the case of Peanut Labs, it's not even that. It's still more that the "surveys" offered are actual scams, and they won't get you Zen, they'll simply get you hacked.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: Not every offer actually gives you the zen it's supposed to. Which sucks.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: they put it that way so u have to pay...more
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: But they only give you 3-5 zen...
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: 3 zen?
[Zone #3] DarkFire@mattcus1: still better than no zen
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: For videos, yes.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: ANd that's worth 3 zen to you? Do you know how many 15 second videos you'd need to buy a costume pack?
Again, let's break this down. A standard speciality costume pack costs 475 Zen. Watching video offers (mostly advertisements for services or commercials for products) gains you 3 to 5 Zen per each video watched--and that's if you get an offer that pays out.
Assume that all video offers pay out that 3 Zen standard. You'd have to watch 158 separate videos (and all videos run between 30 seconds and a minute and a half on average). That works out to, what, about two days of video time?
It's cheaper all the way around just to buy the damned Zen.
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: play the video, turn the volume down low. (not on mute or it won't count) and play C.O.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: i really don't get why companies are "trolling" for advertising schemes
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: It makes you want to buy points
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: Which they then make money
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: you only watch an ad by choice, for a few coins, and they're the bad guys?
In a limited sense, yes. Because Cryptic/Perfect World Entertainment put no restrictions on the types of offers they wanted to be associated with their game, they get a mish-mash of advertising vids, surveys wherein the survey taker must pony up financial info, or actually purchase something, just to finish the survey, and outright graft for player info.
Peanut Labs is not an ethical company. But they do (reasonably) curtail their obvious bids for player data if told by the hiring firm paying their service fees. So yes, I do think Perfect World is at fault for not specifying these controls.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: Okay, wise guy. How many videos are up at a time? 5, maybe 6? A day.
That's the other problem. We can't simply take a day, watch thirty videos, then get on with our lives--pushing aside the simple time sink that would be, they never put that many videos up at one time, because they want to drive players to the payout offers, over the 30-second commercial ones.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: That's 32 days.
Accounting for a standard five videos per day, yeah. Again, it's far cheaper to just buy Zen in the cash shop.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: Yea i sure have the patience and time to watch those stupid videos
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: Because it -WILL NEVER- be fixed. They are focusing on PWE games and they are updating sto.. Why? because STO makes money.
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Hands up anyone in this conversation besides me that was part of the Beta.
[Zone #4] Network@-The-Mighty-One: This game doesn't make as much money as STO. e.g. why they don't really give two craps about this game atm.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: Who cares if youve been playing since beta?
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Well, anyone who cares about accuracy in the context of what it was before PWE?
I find this fascinating--remember, these aren't the new players to Champions, these are established players, some subscribers even. Yet while in City of Heroes, there's a built-in respect for people who beta-tested the game, in Champions, that seems to be the set-up for instant contempt on the part of the player base, or at least scattered bits of the player base. Why?
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: CO has has bugs forever, even before PWE took over
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: people just tend to notice the bugs more, because they never get fixed to it's everwhere and not just in few places now
Can anyone say, Second Life? I knew you could.
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Here's a thought: if you hate it so much, go play DCUO. All you're doing here is polluting bandwidth.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: No one said u have to buy em, duh
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: Well I think our trolling has kept Shen from his delightful game of Fanwankery: The Sony Edition.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: Well i would suggest every player that wants CO improved write a letter and send it a copy to PWI HQ and Cryptic head office, writing a letter still has more impact to date
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: They dont listen, skrcarkden
[Zone] Nicole@sngl8: Wait, what's this "writing" and "letter" thing?
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: Well, they certainly don't listen to people complaining in Zone about it.
Rarely if ever.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: Im opening your eyes, not complaining
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: and Im telling you my opinion
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: No, you're suffering from confirmation bias.
It's possible, but it's more likely he's just saying Cryptic and Perfect World are as disconnected as the Lindens are.
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: No you're complaining bro.
That too.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: Well just one person sending a letter def won't mean much
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: The freedom of speech, ever heard of it?
Okay, again, for the folks in the cheap seats--it's a privately-operated virtual server running a game. There ARE no "free speech" issues, because there is no free speech preservation for a video game.
Okay? Okay. Moving on.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: Nicole, it's an ancient method of transfering data wherein one person scratches graphite onto a piece of paper, and then sends it to another, who reads the scratches.
[Zone #5] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: but if lots of people do it, they might take more notice
True, which is what we're hoping with City of Heroes. (To that end, more fun news--today, we gave the entirety of the Paragon Studios former staff dinner out. And there's more activities in-game planned for later in the week, and the week after.)
[Zone #3] Demon Princess Lucretia@Aesirgard: You're free to your opinion. Just like I'm free to point out when you're ignoring everything that contradicts it.
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: Yes the freedom of speech allows all people the right to voice their opinions freely, but you lost your credibility when you started comparing Champs to DCUO.
[Zone #2] Janie@kagetsuwamono: Only the truly ancient, or anyone over the age of 20, remembers writing letters.
Well, I guess I fit both at this point--hells, I was ancient at age eleven--but come on, has letter-writing fallen that much out of favor? Why?
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: why? is it bad to compare
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: The reason why CoD and ME's fanbase age average is 12-14 is because they're susceptible to the aggressive advertising. That includes - but isn't limited to - bribing reviewers, hiring employees to -
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: - censor bad comments left on their videos, giving their employees the right to lash out at consumers who complain.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: COD Has a...meh community
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: like idk. its like all the retards are gathered in one game
Well, but that's mostly just the player base. What "Deeplove" is talking about is actual employees that are hired to run interference for Call of Duty's shortcomings.
[Zone #5] J.C Deeplove@Fishtoad: In short, they control the media that is centered around their game and effectively lead what they believe is a fanbase.
[Zone #3] Shen@Disarmed: That is corruption, my friend
Actually, no, that's closer to aggressive marketing. Corruption would be when they started killing players who spoke out; but it's still possible to say negative things about Call of Duty, or the studio employed to run it.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: HELLO GUYS
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: DO U SPEAK MY LANGUAGE?
[Zone #3] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: No
[Zone #3] Dragonstorm@Crashbang: I can't read caps
Brilliantly well put, Dragonstorm. Kudos to you.
[Zone #4] Light cygnus@frodo56140: DO you have any problems?
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: yeah i have a problem
[Zone #3] Dragonstorm@Crashbang: yes, a keyboard that cant spell
Eh, I think that's more user error, really. Don't blame the keyboard.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: dragonstorm nobody does da proper engalish in internetz
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: righting proper grammar is for english homewor
"Homewor"? "HOMEWOR"??? You're too lazy even to end words properly??
[Zone #3] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: you don't write grammar, you use it
EXACTLY.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: i dont talk like i type
Thank God.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: fingers and vocal cords not same thing
I give up. Because obviously she's missed the point of the entire conversation BEING WRITTEN DOWN, WITH NO ONE SPEAKING...
[Zone #3] Skcarkden@Skcarkden: who said anything about you talking? when it was all written
HA! I wasn't the only one to notice that!
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: bunch of grammar grandmas
I'm sure you meant that as an insult, dearie, but I take it as a mark of pride.
[Zone #3] Blackjack@Inspektor_Herring: Is there a superhero based on semantics anywhere?
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: wat is semantics
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: alt tab and google it for me
[Zone #2] Reaper@ReaperOxide: This is a chat, not a phone. You can at least try.
Yeah, because at this point, she's sounding almost too lazy to breathe in and out.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: no reaper
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: I won't.
[Zone #3] she-woman@blackdarknesz: No.
So...not just lazy, but actively embracing being stupid? Go her. Proud day for the advancement of feminine intelligence, people.
And then, one day later:
[Zone #3] Azarath@Akizia: Oh no...shes singing again
[Zone #3] Azarath@Akizia: someone shoot her
[Zone #2] Storm Hawk@kbit08: She's singing for YOU!
[Zone #3] Azarath@Akizia: I have the gun if someone has the bullets
I'd insert something in here about how violence against women begets little beyond more violence, even in the virtual sense, but...she's a really, really bad singer. It's hard not to agree.
And...
[Zone #1] Rough and Tumble@Cronicle: It is getting wto wheere a redheaded Cyber girl cna't get a dany descent girl talk in this game!!*pouts*
Well, if that's how you talk normally, I don't imagine so. More from the trenches later.
10 September, 2012
in this world, love lives no more
One day in City of Heroes...we heard rumors of oddity in Pocket D:
[Broadcast] Lucki: Whatever it is keeps moving around now and then like a person
[Broadcast] Lucki: MAYBE ITS A GHOST.
[Broadcast] Literal Lass: The D is HAUNTED!
Basically, we were in Pocket D--a cooperative, damage-free environment--getting damaged. Getting damaged a lot. By invisible forces who occasionally manifested toxic smoke clouds, brilliant beams of white light, or burning blue flames.
[Broadcast] Achaica: the DARKNESS
[Broadcast] Jessye Jaymes: Why, did you use magic missile?
[Broadcast] Literal Lass: We're fighting the nothing. How existential.
[Broadcast] Lucki: Neverending stoooreeeee~
I remain amused that someone got the reference.
[Broadcast] Mind Spike.: What's with the burney treats?))
[Broadcast] Dan the Dangerous: (devs forgetting thier toys)
Actually, no. Tunnel Rat came into the D, and just put random damage patches around the dance floor. Also, he rezzed out Mynx and Luminary, two named NPCs, up near DJ Zero.
[Help] Celerin: if you have any skills that are useful, you should get in touch with the Titan network or offer your expertise, Coding, Legal, korean, Advertising, Business or whatever else they need.
It's a good tip--just go to Titan Network's site, and poke about. If you have any of the above skills, and are willing to donate them to the cause, TonyV would be appreciative of the help.
[Looking For Group] OZREAL X: anything is worth a shot. ther is a switch. a game where you save people now has people trying to save it. if nothing else then we have learned what this game is really about. there is a hero in us all.
That's a good thing to remember, too. Win or lose, we came together. Anything we do, we have more power if we don't do it alone.
[Help] Phantom of the Verse: send certified mail to Mr. Taek Jin Kim, CEO
NCsoft Corporation
1501 4th Avenue, Suite 2050
Seattle, WA 98101
USA
Also good to keep in mind.
[Help] Viridian Storm: Be nice
[Help] Viridian Storm: ...or at least polite.
Because, when you're involved in a protest, you should always try to keep your cool.
Then again...
[Zone #3] Frost Ice@alodylis: why think when i can not think
From Champions comes great wisdom.
Maybe I have been thinking too much.
Also, more on Sapphire's singing in Champions:
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: Oh god...the SONG!
[Zone #5] Ildela@General_Maximus: Disabled game music, having much more fun now. :p
[Zone #3] Dragonstorm@Crashbang: its not the song, its her singing
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: Have mine turned down to 0% and I still hear her...
[Zone #5] Spellbinder@mijj: It will be with you forever
[Zone #5] Neutrox@superkiller10: oh wow she's singing
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: Kinda reminds me of Jem. But somehow, worse.
[Zone #1] Leo@Avianos: Jem is truly Outragous! TrulyTruly Outragous!
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: ...I just died a little inside.
So did we all.
[Zone #3] Edy@gh0st0fsm0k3: wth
[Zone] Suicide Queen@doctorvyle: MY EYES
[Zone] Suicide Queen@doctorvyle: MY EARS
[Zone] Suicide Queen@doctorvyle: WHAT IS HAPPENING HELP
[Zone #1] Leo@Avianos: *smooch* Goodnight Everybody!
[Zone #3] Dragonstorm@Crashbang: come back and suffer with the rest of us
[Zone #5] Neutrox@superkiller10: TRULY OUTRAGEOUS
[Zone] Suicide Queen@doctorvyle: Sapphire has the exact same accent as Tommy Wiseau. What do I make of this?
So...she's quasi-European in a really, really affected sense?
[Zone #3] Glaive@MrHurin: *packs himself in a box*
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: The Anniversary Event should conclude with a fight against Sapphire. Winner gets to sew her mouth shut.
I will say for the record, I don't advocate violence against whomever sings for Sapphire. I just want her to stop singing, that's all. And apparently it's not just me.
[Broadcast] Lucki: Whatever it is keeps moving around now and then like a person
[Broadcast] Lucki: MAYBE ITS A GHOST.
[Broadcast] Literal Lass: The D is HAUNTED!
Basically, we were in Pocket D--a cooperative, damage-free environment--getting damaged. Getting damaged a lot. By invisible forces who occasionally manifested toxic smoke clouds, brilliant beams of white light, or burning blue flames.
[Broadcast] Achaica: the DARKNESS
[Broadcast] Jessye Jaymes: Why, did you use magic missile?
[Broadcast] Literal Lass: We're fighting the nothing. How existential.
[Broadcast] Lucki: Neverending stoooreeeee~
I remain amused that someone got the reference.
[Broadcast] Mind Spike.: What's with the burney treats?))
[Broadcast] Dan the Dangerous: (devs forgetting thier toys)
Actually, no. Tunnel Rat came into the D, and just put random damage patches around the dance floor. Also, he rezzed out Mynx and Luminary, two named NPCs, up near DJ Zero.
[Help] Celerin: if you have any skills that are useful, you should get in touch with the Titan network or offer your expertise, Coding, Legal, korean, Advertising, Business or whatever else they need.
It's a good tip--just go to Titan Network's site, and poke about. If you have any of the above skills, and are willing to donate them to the cause, TonyV would be appreciative of the help.
[Looking For Group] OZREAL X: anything is worth a shot. ther is a switch. a game where you save people now has people trying to save it. if nothing else then we have learned what this game is really about. there is a hero in us all.
That's a good thing to remember, too. Win or lose, we came together. Anything we do, we have more power if we don't do it alone.
[Help] Phantom of the Verse: send certified mail to Mr. Taek Jin Kim, CEO
NCsoft Corporation
1501 4th Avenue, Suite 2050
Seattle, WA 98101
USA
Also good to keep in mind.
[Help] Viridian Storm: Be nice
[Help] Viridian Storm: ...or at least polite.
Because, when you're involved in a protest, you should always try to keep your cool.
Then again...
[Zone #3] Frost Ice@alodylis: why think when i can not think
From Champions comes great wisdom.
Maybe I have been thinking too much.
Also, more on Sapphire's singing in Champions:
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: Oh god...the SONG!
[Zone #5] Ildela@General_Maximus: Disabled game music, having much more fun now. :p
[Zone #3] Dragonstorm@Crashbang: its not the song, its her singing
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: Have mine turned down to 0% and I still hear her...
[Zone #5] Spellbinder@mijj: It will be with you forever
[Zone #5] Neutrox@superkiller10: oh wow she's singing
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: Kinda reminds me of Jem. But somehow, worse.
[Zone #1] Leo@Avianos: Jem is truly Outragous! TrulyTruly Outragous!
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: ...I just died a little inside.
So did we all.
[Zone #3] Edy@gh0st0fsm0k3: wth
[Zone] Suicide Queen@doctorvyle: MY EYES
[Zone] Suicide Queen@doctorvyle: MY EARS
[Zone] Suicide Queen@doctorvyle: WHAT IS HAPPENING HELP
[Zone #1] Leo@Avianos: *smooch* Goodnight Everybody!
[Zone #3] Dragonstorm@Crashbang: come back and suffer with the rest of us
[Zone #5] Neutrox@superkiller10: TRULY OUTRAGEOUS
[Zone] Suicide Queen@doctorvyle: Sapphire has the exact same accent as Tommy Wiseau. What do I make of this?
So...she's quasi-European in a really, really affected sense?
[Zone #3] Glaive@MrHurin: *packs himself in a box*
[Zone] Bliss@PennyDreadful: The Anniversary Event should conclude with a fight against Sapphire. Winner gets to sew her mouth shut.
I will say for the record, I don't advocate violence against whomever sings for Sapphire. I just want her to stop singing, that's all. And apparently it's not just me.
09 September, 2012
we were just getting to the part where the shock sets in
Second day of the third anniversary celebration in Champions Online, and Sapphire's still...performing:
[Zone] Russian Spetsnaz@weewoozesty: note to self dont use headphones during a ingame event
[Zone #2] NightWalker@smartbomb32: that's not much of a show :P haha
To be fair, she's not much of a singer. I did make the decision to turn back on voice acting, and...it seems to be an overall game flaw. Whomever Champions tapped to do their voices...they're not...good.
[Zone #6] Lurimer@CloudsatDawn: phew missed it again
[Zone #6] Lurimer@CloudsatDawn: with her singing thats all you need
[Zone #6] Jaeger@DaedalusMachina: It's the top of the Hour! Time to go to !^&&^!( Lemuria
Yeah, and that's really telling, too: the fact that the player base would rather be anywhere else than within vocal range of the "singer" on stage? That's a handy tip to change your voice actress.
Another clip from Help chat on City of Heroes. This bit dates back to the day after hearing about NCSoft's move.
[Help] Max-inator: There is always CO or DCUO but they are not as good
[Help] Spider Vivi: F*** Those two, Don't ever mention them again
[[Help] Sugar Sparks: once you CoH nothing compares
[Help] Spider Vivi: give city of heroes to someone else, I put so much effort into this game. I can't. I can't accept it.
[Help] Spider Vivi: I f****** CAN'T
[Help] Operative Magnus: The second stage of grief, that is.
[Help] House of Whacks: floating belly up?
[Help] Otaku Assassin: Yeah. But contrary to popular belief, there's not a specific order to those stages of grief, and not all of them can be experienced in each case.
Whether it's mourning the loss of a love, a pet, a shared dream, or a game, grief is pretty much grief all around--some griefs are greater, some lesser, but the experience feels the same. I've noticed, though, that in addition to gamers getting very attached to their games, there's a perception that the loss of a game is somehow more relevant, more intense, more vital to life. If we take everything we know about adaptation and evolution, and rank it logically, gaming comes in pretty close to the bottom of the list. The basic survival needs trump just about anything else: breathing, eating, staying warm enough, staying dry enough, finding ways to keep the lights on and keep food on the table.
The thing about immersive games, though, from a psychological perspective, is that they can feel more real to us than working, than interacting, than getting enough to eat, to drink. Than moving enough to keep our bodies healthy and functioning. It's not just that they're easier to disappear into; but the very experience of walking around as someone else seems to disorient us. Our minds view our creations as ourselves, subconsciously (and on occasion, consciously).
This shouldn't be news to anyone at this point. Parents have let their children die because they wanted in-game experiences more. People have died themselves after multiple hours of gaming with no breaks, no food, no water. Granted, this is not the universal experience, this is the aberrant fringe, but it has happened.
In this light, what happens when our games die--when our virtual alternative selves die--can become, for some people, an emotionally equivalent experience to an actual death. This is key: while it's not the same thing, how it feels is what's important. Emotional resonance creates illogic, because at this point we aren't thinking, we're simply reacting. And we can feel as if we're reacting to a highly charged, intensely emotional event.
[Help] Operative Magnus: It still feels like a nemesis plot, to me.
[Help] Spider Vivi: it still feels like a joke, i can't think of it as anything else
[Help] Operative Magnus: Jokes are funny. This is not.
[Help] A Dumb Snowflake: Took the words right of my mouth, Magnus.
[Help] Screaming Patriot: When a company decides to pull the plug I guess thsi is how it feels. I don't blame the developers of guild wars 2 but I'm just not trusting NC Soft again
[Help] Spider Vivi: How do you make a company like NCsoft change its mind? Are we really that helpless?
[Help] Otaku Assassin: Yup. We are.
Maybe not. There was a lot of press after yesterday's rally. As I mentioned, Massively almost instantly put up their coverage (about an hour's worth, all told), and there's been a lot of mention on the 'almost-CNN' blog post of three days ago. But that's not the biggest news. Several authors and artists have banded together to save the game, with the most notable being the across-the-bow offer by Mercedes Lackey. To wit:
That's huge. Though we have yet to hear any response from NCSoft.
[Help] Spider Vivi: Protest won't do anything. They fired the team.
This is the down side--NCSoft did fire all Paragon Studios staffers. Some have already found new positions, because staying afloat, in these economically charged times, is generally better than hoping for a distant alternative future job to circle back around. So at this point, even if NCSoft apologizes and hires Paragon Studios again--well, who's going to be left?
And each day that passes makes the likelihood of the devs and the coders and the support staff to be free and available that much less likely, overall.
[Help] Foremost in Battle: the economy is at fault people don't have jobs or money and so some of the things we love are lost
Sad, but ultimately true.
[Help] Ivory Scorpion: I dont know if its the economy. This is pretty cheap entertainment. I mean... REALLY cheap
[Help] Foremost in Battle: I thought this morning what it must be like as a dev to wake up and your last 8-10 years of work is over
[Help] Sugar Sparks: best $15 I ever spent on entertainment!
[Help] Foremost in Battle: it must be very tough
[Help] Screaming Patriot: Yeah I never dropped my sub
[Help] Foremost in Battle: some folks are working in the background to see if the game code can be purchased
As far as I know, the attempt is still ongoing. No word yet on whether it will be successful or not.
[Help] Nina Fury: yesterday was my birthday
[Help] Nina Fury: I got a year sub for christmas
Ouch.
[Help] Sugar Sparks: does this mean we will have to pay by the month until shutdown?
No. When everything was shut down, everything was shut down--points can still be used in the in-game store, but the store outside of the game is gone. I'm still wondering what's going to happen with the rest of my subscription--I had three or four months to go. That's between $45 and $90 of funds I cannot use to play the game, so what happens then?
[Help] Operative Magnus: I paid for a year sub with my tax return last year. Had a few months left, too.
[Help] Sugar Sparks: I'd pay an extra $5 or $10 a month if they'd keep the game going
[Help] Operative Magnus: I felt like something might have been wrong when they opened the euro servers to us. Like a fool, I stayed quiet.
[Help] Screaming Patriot: They didn't need the Free to pay model. The game was surviving on it's on. To me they could've down sized a few of the servers.. that were low pop
[Help] Eve of Gaia: it seems they didn't have enough paying subscribers - they went free to try to attract more ppl in & entice them to pay (content on free is restricted). It didn't work.
[Help] Celerin: The game was making money. Freedom was successful.
[Help] Screaming Patriot: Then what's the problem?
Near as we can figure, Aion. Aion tanked in the second quarter, but, because it still has millions of subscribers, as opposed to City of Heroes' hundreds of thousands, CoH got axed to make up the deficit. I don't think it was the right move, obviously, and that this point NCSoft might be, just might be, reconsidering themselves.
But we have no way to know for sure unless there's a press conference or contact from NCSoft directly, again.
[Zone] Russian Spetsnaz@weewoozesty: note to self dont use headphones during a ingame event
[Zone #2] NightWalker@smartbomb32: that's not much of a show :P haha
To be fair, she's not much of a singer. I did make the decision to turn back on voice acting, and...it seems to be an overall game flaw. Whomever Champions tapped to do their voices...they're not...good.
[Zone #6] Lurimer@CloudsatDawn: phew missed it again
[Zone #6] Lurimer@CloudsatDawn: with her singing thats all you need
[Zone #6] Jaeger@DaedalusMachina: It's the top of the Hour! Time to go to !^&&^!( Lemuria
Yeah, and that's really telling, too: the fact that the player base would rather be anywhere else than within vocal range of the "singer" on stage? That's a handy tip to change your voice actress.
Another clip from Help chat on City of Heroes. This bit dates back to the day after hearing about NCSoft's move.
[Help] Max-inator: There is always CO or DCUO but they are not as good
[Help] Spider Vivi: F*** Those two, Don't ever mention them again
[[Help] Sugar Sparks: once you CoH nothing compares
[Help] Spider Vivi: give city of heroes to someone else, I put so much effort into this game. I can't. I can't accept it.
[Help] Spider Vivi: I f****** CAN'T
[Help] Operative Magnus: The second stage of grief, that is.
[Help] House of Whacks: floating belly up?
[Help] Otaku Assassin: Yeah. But contrary to popular belief, there's not a specific order to those stages of grief, and not all of them can be experienced in each case.
Whether it's mourning the loss of a love, a pet, a shared dream, or a game, grief is pretty much grief all around--some griefs are greater, some lesser, but the experience feels the same. I've noticed, though, that in addition to gamers getting very attached to their games, there's a perception that the loss of a game is somehow more relevant, more intense, more vital to life. If we take everything we know about adaptation and evolution, and rank it logically, gaming comes in pretty close to the bottom of the list. The basic survival needs trump just about anything else: breathing, eating, staying warm enough, staying dry enough, finding ways to keep the lights on and keep food on the table.
The thing about immersive games, though, from a psychological perspective, is that they can feel more real to us than working, than interacting, than getting enough to eat, to drink. Than moving enough to keep our bodies healthy and functioning. It's not just that they're easier to disappear into; but the very experience of walking around as someone else seems to disorient us. Our minds view our creations as ourselves, subconsciously (and on occasion, consciously).
This shouldn't be news to anyone at this point. Parents have let their children die because they wanted in-game experiences more. People have died themselves after multiple hours of gaming with no breaks, no food, no water. Granted, this is not the universal experience, this is the aberrant fringe, but it has happened.
In this light, what happens when our games die--when our virtual alternative selves die--can become, for some people, an emotionally equivalent experience to an actual death. This is key: while it's not the same thing, how it feels is what's important. Emotional resonance creates illogic, because at this point we aren't thinking, we're simply reacting. And we can feel as if we're reacting to a highly charged, intensely emotional event.
[Help] Operative Magnus: It still feels like a nemesis plot, to me.
[Help] Spider Vivi: it still feels like a joke, i can't think of it as anything else
[Help] Operative Magnus: Jokes are funny. This is not.
[Help] A Dumb Snowflake: Took the words right of my mouth, Magnus.
[Help] Screaming Patriot: When a company decides to pull the plug I guess thsi is how it feels. I don't blame the developers of guild wars 2 but I'm just not trusting NC Soft again
[Help] Spider Vivi: How do you make a company like NCsoft change its mind? Are we really that helpless?
[Help] Otaku Assassin: Yup. We are.
Maybe not. There was a lot of press after yesterday's rally. As I mentioned, Massively almost instantly put up their coverage (about an hour's worth, all told), and there's been a lot of mention on the 'almost-CNN' blog post of three days ago. But that's not the biggest news. Several authors and artists have banded together to save the game, with the most notable being the across-the-bow offer by Mercedes Lackey. To wit:
"I am going to make you an offer. I am a multi-award-winning, New York Times bestselling fantasy and science fiction author. And I will offer myself and my likeness to endorse and advertise, exclusively, all NCSoft products for a minimum term of five years and a maximum term of ten years, for no compensation or payment, if you will make it possible for the game and Paragon Studios (even in a reduced capacity) to continue to function, either once again under the NCSoft umbrella, or until a new owner comes forward."Let that sink in for a moment. Lackey has rarely endorsed anything, so the simple fact that this is that important to her speaks volumes about both the game and the community. But she's not just throwing this on the table to endorse City of Heroes. She's offering--for a minimum of five years, not to exceed ten years--of free, uncompensated, total endorsement of all NCSoft products, both those that exist now and any that might be created over the next decade--her power as a bestselling author, and as a gamer.
"I had in mind something like this: Advertisements with a photo of myself, imposed over a transparent image of one of my more striking characters, both of us in the same pose. Text: 'I am New York Times bestselling fantasy author Mercedes Lackey. Creating fantastic realms is hard work, and when I relax, I like to play in someone else’s world. I play NCSoft Games. Anything else is unimaginable.' The tagline for the ad campaign would be 'NCSoft: anything else is unimaginable.'
That's huge. Though we have yet to hear any response from NCSoft.
[Help] Spider Vivi: Protest won't do anything. They fired the team.
This is the down side--NCSoft did fire all Paragon Studios staffers. Some have already found new positions, because staying afloat, in these economically charged times, is generally better than hoping for a distant alternative future job to circle back around. So at this point, even if NCSoft apologizes and hires Paragon Studios again--well, who's going to be left?
And each day that passes makes the likelihood of the devs and the coders and the support staff to be free and available that much less likely, overall.
[Help] Foremost in Battle: the economy is at fault people don't have jobs or money and so some of the things we love are lost
Sad, but ultimately true.
[Help] Ivory Scorpion: I dont know if its the economy. This is pretty cheap entertainment. I mean... REALLY cheap
[Help] Foremost in Battle: I thought this morning what it must be like as a dev to wake up and your last 8-10 years of work is over
[Help] Sugar Sparks: best $15 I ever spent on entertainment!
[Help] Foremost in Battle: it must be very tough
[Help] Screaming Patriot: Yeah I never dropped my sub
[Help] Foremost in Battle: some folks are working in the background to see if the game code can be purchased
As far as I know, the attempt is still ongoing. No word yet on whether it will be successful or not.
[Help] Nina Fury: yesterday was my birthday
[Help] Nina Fury: I got a year sub for christmas
Ouch.
[Help] Sugar Sparks: does this mean we will have to pay by the month until shutdown?
No. When everything was shut down, everything was shut down--points can still be used in the in-game store, but the store outside of the game is gone. I'm still wondering what's going to happen with the rest of my subscription--I had three or four months to go. That's between $45 and $90 of funds I cannot use to play the game, so what happens then?
[Help] Operative Magnus: I paid for a year sub with my tax return last year. Had a few months left, too.
[Help] Sugar Sparks: I'd pay an extra $5 or $10 a month if they'd keep the game going
[Help] Operative Magnus: I felt like something might have been wrong when they opened the euro servers to us. Like a fool, I stayed quiet.
[Help] Screaming Patriot: They didn't need the Free to pay model. The game was surviving on it's on. To me they could've down sized a few of the servers.. that were low pop
[Help] Eve of Gaia: it seems they didn't have enough paying subscribers - they went free to try to attract more ppl in & entice them to pay (content on free is restricted). It didn't work.
[Help] Celerin: The game was making money. Freedom was successful.
[Help] Screaming Patriot: Then what's the problem?
Near as we can figure, Aion. Aion tanked in the second quarter, but, because it still has millions of subscribers, as opposed to City of Heroes' hundreds of thousands, CoH got axed to make up the deficit. I don't think it was the right move, obviously, and that this point NCSoft might be, just might be, reconsidering themselves.
But we have no way to know for sure unless there's a press conference or contact from NCSoft directly, again.
08 September, 2012
those who couldn't live yesterday (pt. IV)
(Continued from part III.)
[Help] Stormitron: we can do this!
[Help] tweterdfg: well looks like the "Occupy Paragon" movement is in ull wing...
[Help] Beestyle: So just hang out around the steps of City Hall, or if you want to, go to Atlas Park 11 if you can get in, where Massively is recording.
[Help] Figment Malaise: How can we hack the activists to say "Save CoH, Take a Flyer"?
[Help] Liquid Platinum: As a 6 + year vet, could I get a title?
I don't think anyone's left to give out titles, now.
[Help] Tanelorn: ok, what the heck is going on? why are there so many atlas's
There's always one who doesn't read the memo.
[Help] Teide: there was a save cox rally at 5pm est
[Help] Fragdoll: Time to head out. Work tonight. Thank you, all of you, sincerely, for such a strong show of support and for being such an awesome community.
[Help] MainBattleTank: Server flood
[Help] Lady of Broken Toys: there was a rally. there was a huge queue.
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: What do we want?
[Looking For Group] Mr Davis: Pizza?
Yeah, okay, I think in the short term, too. Pizza would be nice.
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: when do we want it?
[Looking For Group] Mr Davis: Now?
Anytime after now.
[Help] Matt Millionaire: 11 may be full, but contest is just to show support, nobody in 11 gets any prize that somebody else wouldn't. Hang out in some Atlas of your choosing and somebody will be by to look. If they like it, they may opt to hand out some knicknack.
[Help] Teide: There were 33 APs, a 300 queue to join virtue then freedom filled, then onto infinity plus other AP rallies in other servers
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: .... close enough [Help] Nephele: If anyone hasn't been involved with Titan Network before and wants to get started, now's the time. IM me if you want help getting plugged in to the Save Paragon City efforts!
[Help] Blood Eidolon: the power of love will save City of Heroes!
No, no it won't. But it's a good thought.
[Help] Lady of Broken Toys: [Help] I dunno, the power of love is usually pretty sticky.
That too.
[Broadcast] O r i g i n: How's the protest coming?
[Broadcast] Literal Lass: Tapering down. But Massively put up their rally coverage already: http://www.twitch.tv/massivelytv/b/331522098
[Looking For Group] Surge280: everyone should be dancing on the steps in our native people's dance, the Monkey, till we've saved CoH!
[Help] Socrati: power of love? lol.. more like power of money
[Help] Valdis Verdandi: Apparently Freedom is the same
[Looking For Group] Increbidle Hulk: Hulk like game
Apparently Hulk not like spelling, though. Which is a shame, since Hulk very intelligent, just very angry.
[Looking For Group] Mini Slowa: Yo Dawg, I heard you like city of heroes soundstracks and livestream, so I put the city of heroes soundtrack in my livestream. WHEEEEEEEW
[Looking For Group] War Witch: I heard someone say something about pizza...
[Help] SAVE.COH: just read the recap of TonyV's speech on the main forums. I'm glad to see that our efforts aren't going unnoticed. I'm proud of this community.
[Looking For Group] Moondreams: My controller is rocking the "Last Line of Defense" badge.
[Help] Lord Azazel: apparently we filled up virtue and freedom at the start
[Looking For Group] Sovereign Savior: I'm also last line of defense
[Looking For Group] Trollkin Claws: Credible Hulk appreciates the game for it's diverse character creation tool.
[Help] Teide: Masterpost of how to save Cox what you can do to help http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296401
[Looking For Group] Burp: HELL NO WE WONT GO!!! HELL NO WE WONT GO!!!!
[Help] Jenie in a Bottle: FB n Twitter all the way... :)
There was a lot of Facebook and Twitter action today. For one solid hour during the protest, #saveCOH was in the top ten trending topics WORLDWIDE. That's impressive.
[Looking For Group] Mini Slowa: Credible hulk has credibility.
[Help] Agent Naomi: Don't forget to bookmark http://www.cityofheroveterans.com/ - Keep in touch with your global friends!
That's what's been so amazing to me about this--most people really aren't going "wah, they're taking away my toys". Instead, they're mourning over the inevitability of friends drifting away (because they're long-distance friends), and astounding each other with how much positive, social good the game has done.
Don't believe me? There are people who went to AA after talking to friends in City of Heroes. There are people who dealt with the deaths of pets, children, siblings, spouses and parents, and got through it because of City. Hundreds of people met their loves, moved in with them, and married them.
Sound familiar? Second Life, anyone? But this goes deeper--there were supergroups devoted solely to having fun and helping people, over just leveling up and PvP. There were folks who played priests and doctors not out of any desire to cyber with other people, but to hear confessions and give medical support. (Not advice, support--things like, "Well, I'm a doctor and I'd start looking on this site" or "here's the number of the Dial-a-Nurse service in your area").
There was at least one supergroup who started because they wanted a place where any female hero was welcome--and they didn't draw the line at beyond-the-screen differences. (I know that, because that was the supergroup I was in.)
Want more? Second Life became a resource center within hours of Hurricane Katrina touching down--but so did City of Heroes. City of Heroes held multi-supergroup gatherings to get people in touch with each other in the Occupy movement. And there were innumerable people who realized the power of playing a hero could transition to other realms, and started getting active in charities locally.
This was not just another MMO.
[Help] Teide: They had 20 APs an hour before the start
[Help] Afro-Fist: Exalted representing
[Looking For Group] Xaladin: Face your death with some courage.
[Looking For Group] Atlas Park Bum: Spare change?
[Help] Temple Divine: I prefer my love in pills. easier to swallow.
[Looking For Group] Vis Viva: Ho-Ho Hey-Hey CoH has got to stay!
[Looking For Group] AmygdaIa: Going to head back to Champion for a server picture. Good luck folks. :)
[Looking For Group] Increbidle Hulk: closing CoH hurt Hulk
[Help] Electric T: Tell me its not true
And this keeps happening. People who just logged in for the first time in a few weeks, or months, even, and suddenly are hit with the game's closing. Some of these people just collapse; we've at least got the luxury of having dealt with it for longer.
[Looking For Group] Savage Protest: Link to TonyV's forum repose please?
[Looking For Group] River Guardian: How we lookin?
[Looking For Group] Xaladin: Lets hope this game stays online
[Looking For Group] Schwarzen Strike: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5017.msg46826.html#msg46826
[Looking For Group] Sparkus Saberus: Tnx for the link
[Looking For Group] Fairfield: We'll fight til the end, either way. Because that's what we do.
Yeah. It is.
[Help] Icy Pop: This was a very successful day even if Freedom did not fill up. Virtue was packed with 33 AP's and 350 in queue
[Looking For Group] Vis Viva: If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die with my cape on!
[Help] Star of Destiny: Amen!
[Help] Blood Eidolon: guys, if you want to really help CoH, send physical letters to NCsoft
Yeah, if you want to support the game, do not send emails. Send actual, physical letters. This is a page of direct NCSoft contact addresses, worldwide. And, if you want to write Nexon, the current major shareholders for NCSoft, and mention this to them, too, here's how to do that.
[Help] Electric T: Why are they shutting it down
[Help] Minde Bender: profits
[Help] O Sheet Lightning: realignment...
[Help] Haze of Fury: It's the "Coming Storm" we were warned about...
[Help] TameDragon: cause Aion and GW2 fail so hard they shutting down the one that actually makes them profit....
[Help] Dev-stiny: unknown reasons. Conjecture is non-income related reasons.
[Looking For Group] Final Alternative: wearing my 7 Year Vet title with pride
[Looking For Group] Smoking Mirrors: This is the world we live in. And these are the hands we're given. Use them and let's start trying. To make it a place worth living in!
[Help] Hell NO WE won't GO: CoX profits were, NCsoft were not
[Help] XIII Mastermind: Aion lost more money and GW was a hit
[Help] Rakuzion: stop the aoe heals the server already crashed once [Help] Literal Lass: Well, and don't forget "we need to shore up Aion, which lost 2 million in sales in three months"
[Looking For Group] Surge280: I'm just gonna say it now, the end of City of Heroes is the end of the world this year. Just saying...
It feels like that, yeah.
[Help] Hell NO WE won't GO: they spend millions on 'Blade and Soul' launch for Korea, development for GW2 and Wildstar.. things that do not show a return investment yet
[Looking For Group] MattPositronMiller: thank you phil collins
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: this is our home not ncsoft s
[Help] Jay Dove: GW2 is doing so well they had to stop online sales for a while because they had no more room to put people on their servers.
[Help] Temple Divine: Radio Noise Zrrrt ." This is Temple Divine . . .I am standing by . .until . . well as long as it takes. As long as we have. There are survivors. Portal Corp has opened a gateway. .Zrrzzzt Radio Noise** ((Shards of Virtue SG Champions))
So far I've heard of two diaspora groups in Champions: "Shards of Virtue", and "Paragon Refugees".
[Help] Hell NO WE won't GO: plus, NCsoft has been showing decline in profit for a while now
[Looking For Group] Socrati: this feels like Armageddon :/
[Looking For Group] Kozzma: Thank you WW and all the Dev's for supporting US in City.
[Looking For Group] Star Ranger 4.0: Nooo... they took away your super dev buttons already ms Bianco??? ting , everyone.
[Looking For Group] War Witch: I know right???? I could have sworn they were RIGHT HERE....
And this bears its own little pain, because admittedly, I'd been looking forward to news of the devs, lurking. Throwing up design ideas in the D that never saw the light of day before now, and never will again past this point. (I'll be posting pics later, of at least the Nemesis Warhorses.)
But now, they have no admin powers. There may be nothing they can do past this point. Not to sound overly fatalistic, but I'm not sure the game's going to survive until November 30th, even, at this point.
[Looking For Group] Blue Gem: Lincoln Davis, NCsoft West director of corporate communications said....
[Looking For Group] Blue Gem: ..... "Both NCsoft and Paragon Studios are incredibly proud of the success of City of Heroes, but ....
[Looking For Group] Blue Gem: .... unfortunately, the continued support of the franchise no longer fits within our long term goals for the company
Yeah. That's depressing as hell, too.
[Looking For Group] Fairfield: Even if it is, we'll go down fighting.
[Help] Electric T: If they do cancel COH they can go out with a bang
[Looking For Group] Finnish: keep it real
[Looking For Group] Nessanthra: Thx to rvryone for coming out today. I hope the peeps at NCsoft are listening :)
[Space Vixens]Neo-Gabi: HI-K4R1 (Hologram 2): We had 318 in queue when I logged in today. O_O
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Yeah, Freedom became the overflow server, then Defiant or something.
[Space Vixens]Neo-Gabi: HI-K4R1 (Hologram 2): Also people on infinity and champs last I heard.
Wait, people in Champions Online were protesting? ...Okay, that's kind of cool. I'll see if anyone posts about it, if true.
[Space Vixens]Hellslinger: {Stampede Sally}: Hiya Bell!
[Space Vixens]Literal Lass: Is a MIRACLE, I got in. :)
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Hiya :)
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: I know people were here for this 12 hours ago.
[Space Vixens]ThunderCrest: me too and i wanted to slap them
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: I figured, I'd log on about an hour and a half early, get my cape and costume for Beyonda on blueside soe others can recognize Bell
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: After doing that, with 40 minutes to go, I got in AP 22...
[Broadcast] Witty Librarian: whats next
[Broadcast] Nuclear Gecko: The Cape supports Titan Network, Paragon Studios, and The Players trying to #SaveCOH. Tune in on your media player for a Heroic Soundtrack!
[Broadcast] Proteas: Well, I guess the server load is starting to lighten up a bit, my computer's fan isn't running at full speed and the graphics aren't lagging anymore.
[Broadcast] Witty Librarian: yay
[Broadcast] Witty Librarian: good luck, virtue server!
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Bellonda: WEll, I'm back.
[Local] Razaar: Hello LIteral ...nice to see you again.
Yeah, I'm schmaltzy, I kept this in even though it's personal. Razaar is the big horned goof who married my wife (he married one of her Minotaur characters in City of Heroes; she's my wife RL).
[Local] Literal Lass: Hello there!
Stampede Sally lights the Afk on fire
Razaar smiles
It meant a lot to me, just to put this down in print, that he stood beside her during the protest. She's been a wreck through this whole thing, and needs all the support she can get. I'm grateful and honored that Razaar understands this.
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Bellonda: Ok all, I'm logging off for the day. take care everyone.
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Bellonda: Remember to help out on our Guild Portal Forums with names and such!
A lot of the bigger supergroups are turning over their forums to contact information posts--where people are going, what their names are there, what their RL names/locations are, should they choose to divulge that. The diaspora has begun, but many are pledging to still remain friends and in contact after the game departs. And who knows, they may be right.
[Local] Razaar: Yes i was keeping track....It has been cool to be involved.
[Local] Stampede Sally: Me too
[Local] Razaar: It has been a glorious event.
[Local] Literal Lass: Dunno if it will change anything, but no one can say that over the past few weeks, we haven't TRIED.
[Local] Razaar: I agree....Though I hear Ncsoft is watching.
Let's hope they are. And keep in mind, for a while (at least on Twitter), the world was watching. I still believe that makes a difference.
[Help] Stormitron: we can do this!
[Help] tweterdfg: well looks like the "Occupy Paragon" movement is in ull wing...
[Help] Beestyle: So just hang out around the steps of City Hall, or if you want to, go to Atlas Park 11 if you can get in, where Massively is recording.
[Help] Figment Malaise: How can we hack the activists to say "Save CoH, Take a Flyer"?
[Help] Liquid Platinum: As a 6 + year vet, could I get a title?
I don't think anyone's left to give out titles, now.
[Help] Tanelorn: ok, what the heck is going on? why are there so many atlas's
There's always one who doesn't read the memo.
[Help] Teide: there was a save cox rally at 5pm est
[Help] Fragdoll: Time to head out. Work tonight. Thank you, all of you, sincerely, for such a strong show of support and for being such an awesome community.
[Help] MainBattleTank: Server flood
[Help] Lady of Broken Toys: there was a rally. there was a huge queue.
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: What do we want?
[Looking For Group] Mr Davis: Pizza?
Yeah, okay, I think in the short term, too. Pizza would be nice.
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: when do we want it?
[Looking For Group] Mr Davis: Now?
Anytime after now.
[Help] Matt Millionaire: 11 may be full, but contest is just to show support, nobody in 11 gets any prize that somebody else wouldn't. Hang out in some Atlas of your choosing and somebody will be by to look. If they like it, they may opt to hand out some knicknack.
[Help] Teide: There were 33 APs, a 300 queue to join virtue then freedom filled, then onto infinity plus other AP rallies in other servers
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: .... close enough [Help] Nephele: If anyone hasn't been involved with Titan Network before and wants to get started, now's the time. IM me if you want help getting plugged in to the Save Paragon City efforts!
[Help] Blood Eidolon: the power of love will save City of Heroes!
No, no it won't. But it's a good thought.
[Help] Lady of Broken Toys: [Help] I dunno, the power of love is usually pretty sticky.
That too.
[Broadcast] O r i g i n: How's the protest coming?
[Broadcast] Literal Lass: Tapering down. But Massively put up their rally coverage already: http://www.twitch.tv/massivelytv/b/331522098
[Looking For Group] Surge280: everyone should be dancing on the steps in our native people's dance, the Monkey, till we've saved CoH!
[Help] Socrati: power of love? lol.. more like power of money
[Help] Valdis Verdandi: Apparently Freedom is the same
[Looking For Group] Increbidle Hulk: Hulk like game
Apparently Hulk not like spelling, though. Which is a shame, since Hulk very intelligent, just very angry.
[Looking For Group] Mini Slowa: Yo Dawg, I heard you like city of heroes soundstracks and livestream, so I put the city of heroes soundtrack in my livestream. WHEEEEEEEW
[Looking For Group] War Witch: I heard someone say something about pizza...
[Help] SAVE.COH: just read the recap of TonyV's speech on the main forums. I'm glad to see that our efforts aren't going unnoticed. I'm proud of this community.
[Looking For Group] Moondreams: My controller is rocking the "Last Line of Defense" badge.
[Help] Lord Azazel: apparently we filled up virtue and freedom at the start
[Looking For Group] Sovereign Savior: I'm also last line of defense
[Looking For Group] Trollkin Claws: Credible Hulk appreciates the game for it's diverse character creation tool.
[Help] Teide: Masterpost of how to save Cox what you can do to help http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296401
[Looking For Group] Burp: HELL NO WE WONT GO!!! HELL NO WE WONT GO!!!!
[Help] Jenie in a Bottle: FB n Twitter all the way... :)
There was a lot of Facebook and Twitter action today. For one solid hour during the protest, #saveCOH was in the top ten trending topics WORLDWIDE. That's impressive.
[Looking For Group] Mini Slowa: Credible hulk has credibility.
[Help] Agent Naomi: Don't forget to bookmark http://www.cityofheroveterans.com/ - Keep in touch with your global friends!
That's what's been so amazing to me about this--most people really aren't going "wah, they're taking away my toys". Instead, they're mourning over the inevitability of friends drifting away (because they're long-distance friends), and astounding each other with how much positive, social good the game has done.
Don't believe me? There are people who went to AA after talking to friends in City of Heroes. There are people who dealt with the deaths of pets, children, siblings, spouses and parents, and got through it because of City. Hundreds of people met their loves, moved in with them, and married them.
Sound familiar? Second Life, anyone? But this goes deeper--there were supergroups devoted solely to having fun and helping people, over just leveling up and PvP. There were folks who played priests and doctors not out of any desire to cyber with other people, but to hear confessions and give medical support. (Not advice, support--things like, "Well, I'm a doctor and I'd start looking on this site" or "here's the number of the Dial-a-Nurse service in your area").
There was at least one supergroup who started because they wanted a place where any female hero was welcome--and they didn't draw the line at beyond-the-screen differences. (I know that, because that was the supergroup I was in.)
Want more? Second Life became a resource center within hours of Hurricane Katrina touching down--but so did City of Heroes. City of Heroes held multi-supergroup gatherings to get people in touch with each other in the Occupy movement. And there were innumerable people who realized the power of playing a hero could transition to other realms, and started getting active in charities locally.
This was not just another MMO.
[Help] Teide: They had 20 APs an hour before the start
[Help] Afro-Fist: Exalted representing
[Looking For Group] Xaladin: Face your death with some courage.
[Looking For Group] Atlas Park Bum: Spare change?
[Help] Temple Divine: I prefer my love in pills. easier to swallow.
[Looking For Group] Vis Viva: Ho-Ho Hey-Hey CoH has got to stay!
[Looking For Group] AmygdaIa: Going to head back to Champion for a server picture. Good luck folks. :)
[Looking For Group] Increbidle Hulk: closing CoH hurt Hulk
[Help] Electric T: Tell me its not true
And this keeps happening. People who just logged in for the first time in a few weeks, or months, even, and suddenly are hit with the game's closing. Some of these people just collapse; we've at least got the luxury of having dealt with it for longer.
[Looking For Group] Savage Protest: Link to TonyV's forum repose please?
[Looking For Group] River Guardian: How we lookin?
[Looking For Group] Xaladin: Lets hope this game stays online
[Looking For Group] Schwarzen Strike: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5017.msg46826.html#msg46826
[Looking For Group] Sparkus Saberus: Tnx for the link
[Looking For Group] Fairfield: We'll fight til the end, either way. Because that's what we do.
Yeah. It is.
[Help] Icy Pop: This was a very successful day even if Freedom did not fill up. Virtue was packed with 33 AP's and 350 in queue
[Looking For Group] Vis Viva: If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die with my cape on!
[Help] Star of Destiny: Amen!
[Help] Blood Eidolon: guys, if you want to really help CoH, send physical letters to NCsoft
Yeah, if you want to support the game, do not send emails. Send actual, physical letters. This is a page of direct NCSoft contact addresses, worldwide. And, if you want to write Nexon, the current major shareholders for NCSoft, and mention this to them, too, here's how to do that.
[Help] Electric T: Why are they shutting it down
[Help] Minde Bender: profits
[Help] O Sheet Lightning: realignment...
[Help] Haze of Fury: It's the "Coming Storm" we were warned about...
[Help] TameDragon: cause Aion and GW2 fail so hard they shutting down the one that actually makes them profit....
[Help] Dev-stiny: unknown reasons. Conjecture is non-income related reasons.
[Looking For Group] Final Alternative: wearing my 7 Year Vet title with pride
[Looking For Group] Smoking Mirrors: This is the world we live in. And these are the hands we're given. Use them and let's start trying. To make it a place worth living in!
[Help] Hell NO WE won't GO: CoX profits were, NCsoft were not
[Help] XIII Mastermind: Aion lost more money and GW was a hit
[Help] Rakuzion: stop the aoe heals the server already crashed once [Help] Literal Lass: Well, and don't forget "we need to shore up Aion, which lost 2 million in sales in three months"
[Looking For Group] Surge280: I'm just gonna say it now, the end of City of Heroes is the end of the world this year. Just saying...
It feels like that, yeah.
[Help] Hell NO WE won't GO: they spend millions on 'Blade and Soul' launch for Korea, development for GW2 and Wildstar.. things that do not show a return investment yet
[Looking For Group] MattPositronMiller: thank you phil collins
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: this is our home not ncsoft s
[Help] Jay Dove: GW2 is doing so well they had to stop online sales for a while because they had no more room to put people on their servers.
[Help] Temple Divine: Radio Noise Zrrrt ." This is Temple Divine . . .I am standing by . .until . . well as long as it takes. As long as we have. There are survivors. Portal Corp has opened a gateway. .Zrrzzzt Radio Noise** ((Shards of Virtue SG Champions))
So far I've heard of two diaspora groups in Champions: "Shards of Virtue", and "Paragon Refugees".
[Help] Hell NO WE won't GO: plus, NCsoft has been showing decline in profit for a while now
[Looking For Group] Socrati: this feels like Armageddon :/
[Looking For Group] Kozzma: Thank you WW and all the Dev's for supporting US in City.
[Looking For Group] Star Ranger 4.0: Nooo... they took away your super dev buttons already ms Bianco??? ting , everyone.
[Looking For Group] War Witch: I know right???? I could have sworn they were RIGHT HERE....
And this bears its own little pain, because admittedly, I'd been looking forward to news of the devs, lurking. Throwing up design ideas in the D that never saw the light of day before now, and never will again past this point. (I'll be posting pics later, of at least the Nemesis Warhorses.)
But now, they have no admin powers. There may be nothing they can do past this point. Not to sound overly fatalistic, but I'm not sure the game's going to survive until November 30th, even, at this point.
[Looking For Group] Blue Gem: Lincoln Davis, NCsoft West director of corporate communications said....
[Looking For Group] Blue Gem: ..... "Both NCsoft and Paragon Studios are incredibly proud of the success of City of Heroes, but ....
[Looking For Group] Blue Gem: .... unfortunately, the continued support of the franchise no longer fits within our long term goals for the company
Yeah. That's depressing as hell, too.
[Looking For Group] Fairfield: Even if it is, we'll go down fighting.
[Help] Electric T: If they do cancel COH they can go out with a bang
[Looking For Group] Finnish: keep it real
[Looking For Group] Nessanthra: Thx to rvryone for coming out today. I hope the peeps at NCsoft are listening :)
[Space Vixens]Neo-Gabi: HI-K4R1 (Hologram 2): We had 318 in queue when I logged in today. O_O
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Yeah, Freedom became the overflow server, then Defiant or something.
[Space Vixens]Neo-Gabi: HI-K4R1 (Hologram 2): Also people on infinity and champs last I heard.
Wait, people in Champions Online were protesting? ...Okay, that's kind of cool. I'll see if anyone posts about it, if true.
[Space Vixens]Hellslinger: {Stampede Sally}: Hiya Bell!
[Space Vixens]Literal Lass: Is a MIRACLE, I got in. :)
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Hiya :)
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: I know people were here for this 12 hours ago.
[Space Vixens]ThunderCrest: me too and i wanted to slap them
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: I figured, I'd log on about an hour and a half early, get my cape and costume for Beyonda on blueside soe others can recognize Bell
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: After doing that, with 40 minutes to go, I got in AP 22...
[Broadcast] Witty Librarian: whats next
[Broadcast] Nuclear Gecko: The Cape supports Titan Network, Paragon Studios, and The Players trying to #SaveCOH. Tune in on your media player for a Heroic Soundtrack!
[Broadcast] Proteas: Well, I guess the server load is starting to lighten up a bit, my computer's fan isn't running at full speed and the graphics aren't lagging anymore.
[Broadcast] Witty Librarian: yay
[Broadcast] Witty Librarian: good luck, virtue server!
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Bellonda: WEll, I'm back.
[Local] Razaar: Hello LIteral ...nice to see you again.
Yeah, I'm schmaltzy, I kept this in even though it's personal. Razaar is the big horned goof who married my wife (he married one of her Minotaur characters in City of Heroes; she's my wife RL).
[Local] Literal Lass: Hello there!
Stampede Sally lights the Afk on fire
Razaar smiles
It meant a lot to me, just to put this down in print, that he stood beside her during the protest. She's been a wreck through this whole thing, and needs all the support she can get. I'm grateful and honored that Razaar understands this.
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Bellonda: Ok all, I'm logging off for the day. take care everyone.
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: Bellonda: Remember to help out on our Guild Portal Forums with names and such!
A lot of the bigger supergroups are turning over their forums to contact information posts--where people are going, what their names are there, what their RL names/locations are, should they choose to divulge that. The diaspora has begun, but many are pledging to still remain friends and in contact after the game departs. And who knows, they may be right.
[Local] Razaar: Yes i was keeping track....It has been cool to be involved.
[Local] Stampede Sally: Me too
[Local] Razaar: It has been a glorious event.
[Local] Literal Lass: Dunno if it will change anything, but no one can say that over the past few weeks, we haven't TRIED.
[Local] Razaar: I agree....Though I hear Ncsoft is watching.
Let's hope they are. And keep in mind, for a while (at least on Twitter), the world was watching. I still believe that makes a difference.
those who couldn't live yesterday (pt. III)
(Continuing from part II.)
[Help] Vince Hurth: If it helps, I DID sign the petition.
At this point, there aren't even 18,000 folks who've signed the petition yet. While there's some doubt as to how effective it's going to be in the long run, in the short run it's going to fall without ripples into the vast technology pond.
[Help] White Fire: Regardless, even if NCSoft doesn't rescind their decision (which is likely), the amount of community feedback substantially increases their chances of selling it rather than just torpedoing the IP.
[Looking For Group] Cyber Maiden: think this is best mmo out there :), ty devs !
[Help] Bogh Galloo: btw, get all your friends to sign. Even if NCSoft shuts it down the level of participation will help draw other investors!
[Help] Don't Cancel Me Man: Here's the thing: CoH is still profitable. It will never be published by NcSoft, but it's still possible that someone will buy the IP and either keep the game going and rehire the dev team, or start building CoH2
[Looking For Group] PrincessCleo: I've been playing CoH off and on since launch. My boyfriend has played since the beta. I have met so many wonderful people while playing this game. I'm not ready for this to end.
[Help] Cordovan Sev: also check out http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/ for discussion of some of the various options that are being explored -- asking NCSoft to rescind their decision isn't the end-strategy.
[Help] Parabot: Say none of what we're doing helps.....would you rather die willingly, like a sheep led to slaughter, or die with a sword in your hand and a song on your lips, fighting until the end?
I've been on the front lines of a lot of protests, though only rarely has it been a situation where I was risking my own life to protest. Still, that's happened once or twice, and even given the ratio of fear to confidence in those instances, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Protesting takes passion, courage, and conviction. It doesn't mean you're not scared. It doesn't mean you don't dread the future. It means you're willing to put your words, your name, or even your life on the line for what you believe in.
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: I know if CoH goes down, NC soft won't get any more of my buisness
[Looking For Group] Solaar Fyre: so how many AP's are there now?
[Looking For Group] Teenage Legacy: LOTS
This was around quarter after four, four-thirty pm PST, something like that.
[Looking For Group] Apollinaris: I mean have you ever played Lineage 2? They should pay you to play it.
[Looking For Group] lil red 1: COH is most a western game, US and europe and i no PLENTY of people who are VIP in the US
[Help] Sister Brighid: Article on 'not quite CNN' -- go vote it up!
To vote for it, you'll need a CNN account, which seems to be free.
[Help] Final Armageddon: Coh has saved my life let CoH live!!!!!
[Help] Mender Quinch: This has sure as hell been... interesting.
[Help] Blytz: did i hear a rumor that the dev are working on buying the licencing and trying to run with CoH on thier own?
Cannot confirm. Haven't heard this. I'd say it's just a rumor.
[Looking For Group] Apollinaris: It's worse than that. The Lineage 2 servers are full of chinese gold farms. It's nothing but a gank fest.
[Help] Mender Quinch: Tony, how many people did you expect to show up?
TonyV's the fellow behind the Titan Network who started advertising for today's protest.
[Looking For Group] PnJ Time': we love coh..i think ncsoft ceo dosent care if he destroyes ncsoft as long as he gets his golden parachute
[Help] TonyV: I expected a lot, but I ain't gonna lie. 33 Atlas Parks blows my mind.
[Help] Deidrelaythe Dunlevy: On not just one, but two servers, Tony.
Actually, at least three that we know of--Virtue, Freedom and Infinity.
[Help] Gieger Maenad: And they seem to be focused on "mobile platform" games, and pay per hour = about $8 an hour internet cafe games in japan
[Help] Osborn Elmidore: The devs are and Titan wants to crowdsource it, it's up to NCSoft if they'll sell or sit on it. IF they sell I'll buy NC SOft games again, but if they sit on it I'm done with being their rounding error.
[Help] Stormitron: THANK YOU TONYV
[Help] Mender Quinch: I think noise has officially been made.
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: we love cox ncsoft so look and take notice
[Help] Alexander Hamilton: It was a magnificent show by the community :-)
[Looking For Group] Alaina Thomas: Save our game.
[Help] Pebble Peppy Pennie: what you really need to know is on the Save Paragon City form of titan network
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: wow [Help] Blytz: *agrees with Osborn
[Help] Blood Eidolon: Imust admit, 33 atlas parks are an awesome feat
[Help] Alexander Hamilton: Well done, everyone :-)
[Help] DJ Angelica: How about a round of applause for Tony V and all his folks over at Titan Network for providing us ParagonWiki, Mids' Hero Designer, and more....
He's doing a lion's share of the work, yes, though he is receiving support in various ways from the community. Already he's put out Sentinel Plus, an archival program that will save "snapshots" of your character--all costume pieces, all mesh sliders, everything in inventory, everything held in badges--just in case the game is saved.
[Looking For Group] Schwarzen Strike: 75 per zone, I believe
[Looking For Group] Mobile Suit Gun Dame: I think it was around 100 per instance
[Looking For Group] Moondreams: AP holds 75-100 people according to HIt Streak.
[Help] Xeyu: I thank everyone for uniting as a City Of Heroes and standing up for the game we all Love! :D
[Help] Crimson Rook: *claps*
[Help] Light of the Phoenix: The Virtue server welcomes our guests. But I think we may be out of party dip already.
[Help] Pebble Peppy Pennie: I never played console or any other games because of that...and it is the only reason I can play this MMO
[Help] Lexia Star: Hell no we wont go!!
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: Lemme guess.... we're socialists nerds terrorizing a poor defenseless corporation
[Help] M WW B: Thanks you TonyV and Titan and Massively and everyone that plays city.
[Looking For Group] 6 of Sally: many servers...one home...it is Paragon City
[Help] Temple Divine: Wahoo Redline Virtue way to go.
[Looking For Group] Kad-One: It branched out onto Freedom
[Looking For Group] Kad-One: And then Infinity
This? If you haven't already gotten this idea, this was huge. I don't know if it will make a difference; I only know, now, that I was humbled by the outpouring of support.
[Help] Void Dancyr: hey tonyv....sent+ is a godsend
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: that lady walked through a lion
[Looking For Group] Mini Slowa: VIRTUE ATLAS PARK I AM STREAMING IN YOU
[Looking For Group] Ms. Chernobyl: This is our city, we will not give up without a fight.
[Help] Jackson Storm: APB was dead and buried for at least a year, but GamersFirst revived it and have put a lot of development into it.
While I don't want City of Heroes to pull an APB, because the designers had to recreate a lot of game assets after so much time has passed...it's good to remember that things revive all the time, these days: cover songs, retconned storylines, updates to classic (and not so classic) movies, reinvention of existing technologies...it's not completely outside the realm of possibility to take the next year, crusade and talk up the game to potential investors, and have it return.
It's not highly likely, but it's not completely implausible.
[Looking For Group] rootstock: yeah go tony v, way to get titan some publicity
I laud everyone at the Titan Network for their tireless efforts to save City of Heroes.
More in part IV.
[Help] Vince Hurth: If it helps, I DID sign the petition.
At this point, there aren't even 18,000 folks who've signed the petition yet. While there's some doubt as to how effective it's going to be in the long run, in the short run it's going to fall without ripples into the vast technology pond.
[Help] White Fire: Regardless, even if NCSoft doesn't rescind their decision (which is likely), the amount of community feedback substantially increases their chances of selling it rather than just torpedoing the IP.
[Looking For Group] Cyber Maiden: think this is best mmo out there :), ty devs !
[Help] Bogh Galloo: btw, get all your friends to sign. Even if NCSoft shuts it down the level of participation will help draw other investors!
[Help] Don't Cancel Me Man: Here's the thing: CoH is still profitable. It will never be published by NcSoft, but it's still possible that someone will buy the IP and either keep the game going and rehire the dev team, or start building CoH2
[Looking For Group] PrincessCleo: I've been playing CoH off and on since launch. My boyfriend has played since the beta. I have met so many wonderful people while playing this game. I'm not ready for this to end.
[Help] Cordovan Sev: also check out http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/ for discussion of some of the various options that are being explored -- asking NCSoft to rescind their decision isn't the end-strategy.
[Help] Parabot: Say none of what we're doing helps.....would you rather die willingly, like a sheep led to slaughter, or die with a sword in your hand and a song on your lips, fighting until the end?
I've been on the front lines of a lot of protests, though only rarely has it been a situation where I was risking my own life to protest. Still, that's happened once or twice, and even given the ratio of fear to confidence in those instances, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Protesting takes passion, courage, and conviction. It doesn't mean you're not scared. It doesn't mean you don't dread the future. It means you're willing to put your words, your name, or even your life on the line for what you believe in.
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: I know if CoH goes down, NC soft won't get any more of my buisness
[Looking For Group] Solaar Fyre: so how many AP's are there now?
[Looking For Group] Teenage Legacy: LOTS
This was around quarter after four, four-thirty pm PST, something like that.
[Looking For Group] Apollinaris: I mean have you ever played Lineage 2? They should pay you to play it.
[Looking For Group] lil red 1: COH is most a western game, US and europe and i no PLENTY of people who are VIP in the US
[Help] Sister Brighid: Article on 'not quite CNN' -- go vote it up!
To vote for it, you'll need a CNN account, which seems to be free.
[Help] Final Armageddon: Coh has saved my life let CoH live!!!!!
[Help] Mender Quinch: This has sure as hell been... interesting.
[Help] Blytz: did i hear a rumor that the dev are working on buying the licencing and trying to run with CoH on thier own?
Cannot confirm. Haven't heard this. I'd say it's just a rumor.
[Looking For Group] Apollinaris: It's worse than that. The Lineage 2 servers are full of chinese gold farms. It's nothing but a gank fest.
[Help] Mender Quinch: Tony, how many people did you expect to show up?
TonyV's the fellow behind the Titan Network who started advertising for today's protest.
[Looking For Group] PnJ Time': we love coh..i think ncsoft ceo dosent care if he destroyes ncsoft as long as he gets his golden parachute
[Help] TonyV: I expected a lot, but I ain't gonna lie. 33 Atlas Parks blows my mind.
[Help] Deidrelaythe Dunlevy: On not just one, but two servers, Tony.
Actually, at least three that we know of--Virtue, Freedom and Infinity.
[Help] Gieger Maenad: And they seem to be focused on "mobile platform" games, and pay per hour = about $8 an hour internet cafe games in japan
[Help] Osborn Elmidore: The devs are and Titan wants to crowdsource it, it's up to NCSoft if they'll sell or sit on it. IF they sell I'll buy NC SOft games again, but if they sit on it I'm done with being their rounding error.
[Help] Stormitron: THANK YOU TONYV
[Help] Mender Quinch: I think noise has officially been made.
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: we love cox ncsoft so look and take notice
[Help] Alexander Hamilton: It was a magnificent show by the community :-)
[Looking For Group] Alaina Thomas: Save our game.
[Help] Pebble Peppy Pennie: what you really need to know is on the Save Paragon City form of titan network
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: wow [Help] Blytz: *agrees with Osborn
[Help] Blood Eidolon: Imust admit, 33 atlas parks are an awesome feat
[Help] Alexander Hamilton: Well done, everyone :-)
[Help] DJ Angelica: How about a round of applause for Tony V and all his folks over at Titan Network for providing us ParagonWiki, Mids' Hero Designer, and more....
He's doing a lion's share of the work, yes, though he is receiving support in various ways from the community. Already he's put out Sentinel Plus, an archival program that will save "snapshots" of your character--all costume pieces, all mesh sliders, everything in inventory, everything held in badges--just in case the game is saved.
[Looking For Group] Schwarzen Strike: 75 per zone, I believe
[Looking For Group] Mobile Suit Gun Dame: I think it was around 100 per instance
[Looking For Group] Moondreams: AP holds 75-100 people according to HIt Streak.
[Help] Xeyu: I thank everyone for uniting as a City Of Heroes and standing up for the game we all Love! :D
[Help] Crimson Rook: *claps*
[Help] Light of the Phoenix: The Virtue server welcomes our guests. But I think we may be out of party dip already.
[Help] Pebble Peppy Pennie: I never played console or any other games because of that...and it is the only reason I can play this MMO
[Help] Lexia Star: Hell no we wont go!!
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: Lemme guess.... we're socialists nerds terrorizing a poor defenseless corporation
[Help] M WW B: Thanks you TonyV and Titan and Massively and everyone that plays city.
[Looking For Group] 6 of Sally: many servers...one home...it is Paragon City
[Help] Temple Divine: Wahoo Redline Virtue way to go.
[Looking For Group] Kad-One: It branched out onto Freedom
[Looking For Group] Kad-One: And then Infinity
This? If you haven't already gotten this idea, this was huge. I don't know if it will make a difference; I only know, now, that I was humbled by the outpouring of support.
[Help] Void Dancyr: hey tonyv....sent+ is a godsend
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: that lady walked through a lion
[Looking For Group] Mini Slowa: VIRTUE ATLAS PARK I AM STREAMING IN YOU
[Looking For Group] Ms. Chernobyl: This is our city, we will not give up without a fight.
[Help] Jackson Storm: APB was dead and buried for at least a year, but GamersFirst revived it and have put a lot of development into it.
While I don't want City of Heroes to pull an APB, because the designers had to recreate a lot of game assets after so much time has passed...it's good to remember that things revive all the time, these days: cover songs, retconned storylines, updates to classic (and not so classic) movies, reinvention of existing technologies...it's not completely outside the realm of possibility to take the next year, crusade and talk up the game to potential investors, and have it return.
It's not highly likely, but it's not completely implausible.
[Looking For Group] rootstock: yeah go tony v, way to get titan some publicity
I laud everyone at the Titan Network for their tireless efforts to save City of Heroes.
More in part IV.
those who couldn't live yesterday (pt. II)
(Continuing from part I.)
[Help] Mobile Suit Gun Dame: Spilled over onto -- and filled up -- Freedom, too.
For a while, Virtue was maxed out. Freedom was the overflow. Then Freedom maxed out. Infinity became the overflow. At one point on each of these servers they had over thirty instances of Atlas Park, each, for the protest.
[Help] Icerific: What is the Massive site?
Here.
[Looking For Group] Alaina Thomas: Keep it alive people. I meet my best friends on here. If it was not for C0H I would not have such great friends here
[Help] rootstock: i give my suppoert to ncsoft now. No way will i support mugs who come here just to clog the system and dont even play. Go NC shut it tomorrow. Pleaaaaaassssssseeeeeee
There's always someone.
[Help] Exo-buster: I actually managed to see my character on the composite image.
[Looking For Group] Green Bearet: With all due respect, Jack's a tool.
Maybe, but Emmert had nothing to do with shutting down City of Heroes. That was all NCSoft--and possibly their major shareholders, Nexon.
[Looking For Group] StrikeFalcon: Emmert was a great man when the game first started... unfortunately, he was seduced by the dark-side of MMO making
Eh, I think it was more he went into management, over playing and developing games on the ground.
[Looking For Group] Battle'Maiden: Yea, CO had promise but the cartoony look and feel and the terrible camera angles ruined it for me
[Looking For Group] Rosa Luxemburg: Save CoH so the Crazy 88's can burn more inf!
[Looking For Group] Element Z: 8 MORE YEARS!!!!!
[Help] Lady of Broken Toys: [Help] dcuo sucks by all reports. fair action but the community makes you want to do brain surgery on yourself with an immersion heater.
[Help] Freem Propulsion: At least with this Rally we learned some of the folks we need to /ignore for being less than supportive of saving our city.
[Looking For Group] Angry Rabble: best trailer for coh
[Help] War Melissa: Marvel didn't just "Pull out." They had to due to having licensing agreements with Activision
Now, that last one is somewhat important--that's War Witch. She was upper upper management in Paragon Studios. She also used to come in as a redname admin. Now? NCSoft's stripped her--and most of the other devs we know about--of all powers. Based on this evidence, they might have even blocked account access, so that they can no longer access their trademark characters.
And sure, yes, fine, those trademark characters do belong to NCSoft...but that's on the asset level. Think about how any of us might feel if the company who owns the game we play in was able to just delete us with no recourse. There are a lot of folks who've had it happen in SL, after all. But bump that up a notch--what if the character you'd spent so much time outfitting, powering up, making perfect, and playing with was a Linden, say? Who suddenly got axed in the layoff round? No appreciable warning, and though you could make another character, your main character is just--gone.
Melissa Bianco is one of those who now knows exactly how that feels.
[Help] Vince Hurth: I don't want to sound like a troll, I'm not trying to offend or piss anybody off...
[Help] Vince Hurth: But nothing is going to save CoH. The team is fired, the decision is made.
[Help] Final Armageddon: lets show ncsoft we will not take this shutting CoH down!!!!!!
[Help] rootstock: Wont save CoH full stop
Maybe not. But if we never protest for what we believe, then we don't really believe it.
[Help] Mobile Suit Gun Dame: I don't hate on the other games NCSoft runs; I merely decline to provide them with any of my support.
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: save our home
[Looking For Group] Betty Louise Svenson: There should be a Melancholia badge for anyone on the last day.
[Help] Rattletrapp: Any remaining RedName folk, there's lots of us still not flying Paragon Backer flags on the steps
This is generally a shout-out to the devs to drop by. Normally, because the devs had been very involved in the day-to-day operation of the game world, that'd do it. Today, none of the devs we saw at the various protests had admin powers anymore.
Past this point, there may be no "Paragon Backer" titles given out. There may be no special oddities happening in the D. No Hallowe'en event, if one was even trying to be organized.
[Help] Xeyu: Dont forget to sign the City Of Heroes petition everyone if you haven't already. Its on change.org. You can just go to Google and type in City Of Heroes petition and it should be the first link.
[Looking For Group] 6 of Sally: This is as dear to me as my family
[Help] DJ Angelica: They're bouncing instances.
This was the first news, about half past three pm PST, that NCSoft was trying to close down instances of Atlas Park to stop the protests.
[Looking For Group] Coquettish Kitten: its more than a game its a community of people we have gotten close to
[Help] Sechmeth: even if it was a business decision, they will have to worry about PR
[Looking For Group] 6 of Sally: Tis not just a video game...This is about FAMILY
[Help] Trillium: Rally was also held on Freedom
[Help] Blood Eidolon: le'ts jsut hope CoH doesn't get run by EA *shudders*
Really. More in part III.
[Help] Mobile Suit Gun Dame: Spilled over onto -- and filled up -- Freedom, too.
For a while, Virtue was maxed out. Freedom was the overflow. Then Freedom maxed out. Infinity became the overflow. At one point on each of these servers they had over thirty instances of Atlas Park, each, for the protest.
[Help] Icerific: What is the Massive site?
Here.
[Looking For Group] Alaina Thomas: Keep it alive people. I meet my best friends on here. If it was not for C0H I would not have such great friends here
[Help] rootstock: i give my suppoert to ncsoft now. No way will i support mugs who come here just to clog the system and dont even play. Go NC shut it tomorrow. Pleaaaaaassssssseeeeeee
There's always someone.
[Help] Exo-buster: I actually managed to see my character on the composite image.
[Looking For Group] Green Bearet: With all due respect, Jack's a tool.
Maybe, but Emmert had nothing to do with shutting down City of Heroes. That was all NCSoft--and possibly their major shareholders, Nexon.
[Looking For Group] StrikeFalcon: Emmert was a great man when the game first started... unfortunately, he was seduced by the dark-side of MMO making
Eh, I think it was more he went into management, over playing and developing games on the ground.
[Looking For Group] Battle'Maiden: Yea, CO had promise but the cartoony look and feel and the terrible camera angles ruined it for me
[Looking For Group] Rosa Luxemburg: Save CoH so the Crazy 88's can burn more inf!
[Looking For Group] Element Z: 8 MORE YEARS!!!!!
[Help] Lady of Broken Toys: [Help] dcuo sucks by all reports. fair action but the community makes you want to do brain surgery on yourself with an immersion heater.
[Help] Freem Propulsion: At least with this Rally we learned some of the folks we need to /ignore for being less than supportive of saving our city.
[Looking For Group] Angry Rabble: best trailer for coh
[Help] War Melissa: Marvel didn't just "Pull out." They had to due to having licensing agreements with Activision
Now, that last one is somewhat important--that's War Witch. She was upper upper management in Paragon Studios. She also used to come in as a redname admin. Now? NCSoft's stripped her--and most of the other devs we know about--of all powers. Based on this evidence, they might have even blocked account access, so that they can no longer access their trademark characters.
And sure, yes, fine, those trademark characters do belong to NCSoft...but that's on the asset level. Think about how any of us might feel if the company who owns the game we play in was able to just delete us with no recourse. There are a lot of folks who've had it happen in SL, after all. But bump that up a notch--what if the character you'd spent so much time outfitting, powering up, making perfect, and playing with was a Linden, say? Who suddenly got axed in the layoff round? No appreciable warning, and though you could make another character, your main character is just--gone.
Melissa Bianco is one of those who now knows exactly how that feels.
[Help] Vince Hurth: I don't want to sound like a troll, I'm not trying to offend or piss anybody off...
[Help] Vince Hurth: But nothing is going to save CoH. The team is fired, the decision is made.
[Help] Final Armageddon: lets show ncsoft we will not take this shutting CoH down!!!!!!
[Help] rootstock: Wont save CoH full stop
Maybe not. But if we never protest for what we believe, then we don't really believe it.
[Help] Mobile Suit Gun Dame: I don't hate on the other games NCSoft runs; I merely decline to provide them with any of my support.
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: save our home
[Looking For Group] Betty Louise Svenson: There should be a Melancholia badge for anyone on the last day.
[Help] Rattletrapp: Any remaining RedName folk, there's lots of us still not flying Paragon Backer flags on the steps
This is generally a shout-out to the devs to drop by. Normally, because the devs had been very involved in the day-to-day operation of the game world, that'd do it. Today, none of the devs we saw at the various protests had admin powers anymore.
Past this point, there may be no "Paragon Backer" titles given out. There may be no special oddities happening in the D. No Hallowe'en event, if one was even trying to be organized.
[Help] Xeyu: Dont forget to sign the City Of Heroes petition everyone if you haven't already. Its on change.org. You can just go to Google and type in City Of Heroes petition and it should be the first link.
[Looking For Group] 6 of Sally: This is as dear to me as my family
[Help] DJ Angelica: They're bouncing instances.
This was the first news, about half past three pm PST, that NCSoft was trying to close down instances of Atlas Park to stop the protests.
[Looking For Group] Coquettish Kitten: its more than a game its a community of people we have gotten close to
[Help] Sechmeth: even if it was a business decision, they will have to worry about PR
[Looking For Group] 6 of Sally: Tis not just a video game...This is about FAMILY
[Help] Trillium: Rally was also held on Freedom
[Help] Blood Eidolon: le'ts jsut hope CoH doesn't get run by EA *shudders*
Really. More in part III.
those who couldn't live yesterday (pt. I)
This is gonna be pretty rough, I'm currently in a maxed-out server holding a torch on the Atlas Park steps, in the twelfth instance of Atlas Park (at its height, the rally had 33 instances of Atlas Park, and there was at least one attempt--from NCSoft direct--to restrict AP spawns to ten. Apparently that didn't work). These are all comments from Looking For Group channel, Help channel, my supergroup's chat feed (the Space Vixens), or Broadcast. This is one of four.
[Looking For Group] Save Our City 1971: Long live City Of Heroes!!!! Its not just a game, its a way of life. A community!!!
[Looking For Group] Captain Cymru.: @Starbright cant get into virtue so is holding a vigil with some others in support - wish him luck! :)
[Looking For Group] Kritikal Mass: Save our City, so that we can keep saving the world!
[Looking For Group] DrAsinineSaveParagon: Again, they are making money. It doesn't make sense for them to cut it at all. Even if they just did the status quo letting the devs do what they've been doing...they'd STILL be gaining lots of money. For basically doing nothing. I dun get it.
[Help] Lady Darquette: where is the CC? All the Atlas's are full
[Looking For Group] Trollkin Claws: Currently at 33 APs
[Help] Adjective-Noun: It seems we may have maxed out at 33 APs. =/
"CC" in this instance stands for "costume contest". They have them frequently in City of Heroes. It's like SL contests--show up dressed according to the theme, dance, socialize, have a chance to win cash (influence or infamy) and prizes.
[Space Vixens]Neo-Gabi: HI-K4R1 (Hologram 2): We had 318 in queue when I logged in today. O_O
[Looking For Group] SaveCOXPleaseMa: I was in overflow in Freedom then got in. yay
[Looking For Group] Burp: has NC said anything yet or is this just a big circle jerk
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: i beta tested this mmo .. and many here did
[Help] No End?: I love City of Heroes, I hate WoW, I hate GW2, I hate Champions Online!!!
[Looking For Group] von Stroheim: Wasn't there a licensing issue with Cryptic?
No. There was no licensing issue with Cryptic. That's been confirmed as a rumor based on nothing but supposition.
[Looking For Group] Save Our City 1971: City Of Heroes, the number one mmo in my book!! Who's with me??
[Looking For Group] Real Codewalker: DrAsinine: They probably think they can make MORE money by spending it somewhere else.
[Looking For Group] Trillium: The financials are the reason, this was the bottom barrel game financially
[Looking For Group] Mender Quinch: [Lv46 mind/emp] Nope. License granted FOREVEEEERRR.
[Looking For Group] Branda Sharp: the DJ on cape radio said Neil Gaiman has COH on his blog
Not quite--on September 6th, Samuraiko asked Gaiman to retweet a plea to save City of Heroes. He did. Then Laurell K. Hamilton picked that up, and retweeted it.
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: im honoured to see such efforts to save a game and its worth it
[Looking For Group] THlS lS NONSENSE: THANKS ALL OF U FOR HIJACKING THE LFG CHANNEL WITH USELESS CHATTER
Save for, we don't think it's useless.
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: I know people were here for this 12 hours ago.
[Looking For Group] Order A Pizza: Theres 33 Instances
[Looking For Group] DrAsinineSaveParagon: Again to people who say financials. It's in the black. It's making money. Why throw out a game that is still MAKING money? If it was in the hole I'd understand
[Looking For Group] Lochlain: I don't understand all the hate for CO. It looks different but I don't think it looks bad. Hell I played it for years and liked it fine.
Okay, just to insert here: Lochlain's right. It's another game. Games look different, and a lot of my current bitterness towards Champions is because it's not City of Heroes. I am blaming it precisely because it's its own game.
And let's also be completely fair, here: I had fun last night, playing Champions. HOWEVER, to also be completely fair, what I mostly spent four hours doing was running around a parking lot outside the jail blowing up cop cars.
Not even kidding. Mm. Allen and I had been running around taking out prisoners in the jailbreak, until we realized we could get just as many random anniversary gift drops by blowing up objects.
So, brief armchair analysis: I had fun in a game I profess not to like, because I wasn't doing anything story-related, or level-related. I was just randomly being violent and lighting cars on fire.
[Looking For Group] Rattletrapp: Where is the livestream coverage of this being broadcast?
Here.
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: wow... this is crazy
[Looking For Group] Broad SSR: we should all get on top of the globe to show support of our "World"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Looking For Group] Life Energy: Save our city
[Looking For Group] Jane Ashland: *laughs* guess we are about to break the server ?
[Looking For Group] Smoking Mirrors: Dear community. At this point I have no hatred for any other game or any company. Only love, love for the community. Let's try to do this with positive feelings. Regardless of the outcome, I want this to be a positive experience and memory.
[Looking For Group] Element Z: So NCSoft was/is losing money keeping COH alive?
[Looking For Group] Obsidian Rabbit: how many atlas parks do we have now?
[Looking For Group] Half Hitch: Save Our City!!!!! C'mon ya'll....Sing Along!!!!
[Looking For Group] Apollinaris: I think the reason for the shutdown is pretty obvious. NcSoft isn't making money and it's easier to ax someone across the pacific than in house.
[Looking For Group] Soundtrack: It was an honor being with you all today. Be safe, heroes/villains!
[Looking For Group] Glass Goblin: This community is why I've been here since April 1, 2004.
[Looking For Group] Order A Pizza: 33 instancesx of AP
[Looking For Group] Alaina Thomas: I let my 4 year play this game. Now he is 12 and it is a clean game. No blood or guts on it. That is why I let him start out early
[Looking For Group] Battle'Maiden: Yea Krit. COs figures looked like Popeye figures, bleh!
That's pretty much solely because of the ginormous oven-mitt hands on the mesh.
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: save our home ....its not alone ncsoft choice to abandon a thriving community
[Help] Lady Darquette: Composite view of the Atlas's crowds
Basically, what they did was go through each of the thirty-plus Atlas Parks, captured each hero for a few seconds, then quickly through up a montage. I'm in there somewhere, so is everyone else in my household and 1,997 other people.
[Looking For Group] 6 of Sally: CO is just visually ugly
Well...yeah.
[Looking For Group] Captain Saskatchewan: CO's graphics look like they were made in 2000 not 2012
Part of that really does come down to the game's style. They wanted that look, fought hard for it. And folks are right, disparaging how their avatars look, when the creative team wanted that look, is completely specious and judgemental.
Doesn't help the feeling, but at least I know I'm being superficial.
[Help] PO'ed Geode: http://www.adultswim.com/bumps/AnimeGamer/save-coh-39901.html
Due to the overwhelming popularity of Adult Swim's "bumps", they've started flipping up suggestions they got. That was one of them. It's been airing.
[Looking For Group] Bishop Saint': What was the livestream link again?
[Looking For Group] All this and brains: well have played WoW, Swtor, even Forsaken/perfect world. Would give them and all my 100+Wow mounts up to keep this game
[Looking For Group] evoL 4ever coh: the costume creator in CO was super annoying
[Looking For Group] Zanriel: http://massively.joystiq.com/livestream
[Looking For Group] Bishop Saint': thanks
On to part II.
[Looking For Group] Save Our City 1971: Long live City Of Heroes!!!! Its not just a game, its a way of life. A community!!!
[Looking For Group] Captain Cymru.: @Starbright cant get into virtue so is holding a vigil with some others in support - wish him luck! :)
[Looking For Group] Kritikal Mass: Save our City, so that we can keep saving the world!
[Looking For Group] DrAsinineSaveParagon: Again, they are making money. It doesn't make sense for them to cut it at all. Even if they just did the status quo letting the devs do what they've been doing...they'd STILL be gaining lots of money. For basically doing nothing. I dun get it.
[Help] Lady Darquette: where is the CC? All the Atlas's are full
[Looking For Group] Trollkin Claws: Currently at 33 APs
[Help] Adjective-Noun: It seems we may have maxed out at 33 APs. =/
"CC" in this instance stands for "costume contest". They have them frequently in City of Heroes. It's like SL contests--show up dressed according to the theme, dance, socialize, have a chance to win cash (influence or infamy) and prizes.
[Space Vixens]Neo-Gabi: HI-K4R1 (Hologram 2): We had 318 in queue when I logged in today. O_O
 |
| (from the City of Heroes album; my queue notice earlier) |
[Looking For Group] SaveCOXPleaseMa: I was in overflow in Freedom then got in. yay
[Looking For Group] Burp: has NC said anything yet or is this just a big circle jerk
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: i beta tested this mmo .. and many here did
[Help] No End?: I love City of Heroes, I hate WoW, I hate GW2, I hate Champions Online!!!
[Looking For Group] von Stroheim: Wasn't there a licensing issue with Cryptic?
No. There was no licensing issue with Cryptic. That's been confirmed as a rumor based on nothing but supposition.
[Looking For Group] Save Our City 1971: City Of Heroes, the number one mmo in my book!! Who's with me??
[Looking For Group] Real Codewalker: DrAsinine: They probably think they can make MORE money by spending it somewhere else.
[Looking For Group] Trillium: The financials are the reason, this was the bottom barrel game financially
[Looking For Group] Mender Quinch: [Lv46 mind/emp] Nope. License granted FOREVEEEERRR.
[Looking For Group] Branda Sharp: the DJ on cape radio said Neil Gaiman has COH on his blog
Not quite--on September 6th, Samuraiko asked Gaiman to retweet a plea to save City of Heroes. He did. Then Laurell K. Hamilton picked that up, and retweeted it.
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: im honoured to see such efforts to save a game and its worth it
[Looking For Group] THlS lS NONSENSE: THANKS ALL OF U FOR HIJACKING THE LFG CHANNEL WITH USELESS CHATTER
Save for, we don't think it's useless.
[Space Vixens]Forever Zer0: I know people were here for this 12 hours ago.
[Looking For Group] Order A Pizza: Theres 33 Instances
[Looking For Group] DrAsinineSaveParagon: Again to people who say financials. It's in the black. It's making money. Why throw out a game that is still MAKING money? If it was in the hole I'd understand
[Looking For Group] Lochlain: I don't understand all the hate for CO. It looks different but I don't think it looks bad. Hell I played it for years and liked it fine.
Okay, just to insert here: Lochlain's right. It's another game. Games look different, and a lot of my current bitterness towards Champions is because it's not City of Heroes. I am blaming it precisely because it's its own game.
And let's also be completely fair, here: I had fun last night, playing Champions. HOWEVER, to also be completely fair, what I mostly spent four hours doing was running around a parking lot outside the jail blowing up cop cars.
Not even kidding. Mm. Allen and I had been running around taking out prisoners in the jailbreak, until we realized we could get just as many random anniversary gift drops by blowing up objects.
So, brief armchair analysis: I had fun in a game I profess not to like, because I wasn't doing anything story-related, or level-related. I was just randomly being violent and lighting cars on fire.
[Looking For Group] Rattletrapp: Where is the livestream coverage of this being broadcast?
Here.
[Looking For Group] Electo-nerd: wow... this is crazy
[Looking For Group] Broad SSR: we should all get on top of the globe to show support of our "World"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Looking For Group] Life Energy: Save our city
[Looking For Group] Jane Ashland: *laughs* guess we are about to break the server ?
[Looking For Group] Smoking Mirrors: Dear community. At this point I have no hatred for any other game or any company. Only love, love for the community. Let's try to do this with positive feelings. Regardless of the outcome, I want this to be a positive experience and memory.
[Looking For Group] Element Z: So NCSoft was/is losing money keeping COH alive?
[Looking For Group] Obsidian Rabbit: how many atlas parks do we have now?
[Looking For Group] Half Hitch: Save Our City!!!!! C'mon ya'll....Sing Along!!!!
[Looking For Group] Apollinaris: I think the reason for the shutdown is pretty obvious. NcSoft isn't making money and it's easier to ax someone across the pacific than in house.
[Looking For Group] Soundtrack: It was an honor being with you all today. Be safe, heroes/villains!
[Looking For Group] Glass Goblin: This community is why I've been here since April 1, 2004.
[Looking For Group] Order A Pizza: 33 instancesx of AP
[Looking For Group] Alaina Thomas: I let my 4 year play this game. Now he is 12 and it is a clean game. No blood or guts on it. That is why I let him start out early
[Looking For Group] Battle'Maiden: Yea Krit. COs figures looked like Popeye figures, bleh!
That's pretty much solely because of the ginormous oven-mitt hands on the mesh.
[Looking For Group] Cimerian Nova: save our home ....its not alone ncsoft choice to abandon a thriving community
[Help] Lady Darquette: Composite view of the Atlas's crowds
Basically, what they did was go through each of the thirty-plus Atlas Parks, captured each hero for a few seconds, then quickly through up a montage. I'm in there somewhere, so is everyone else in my household and 1,997 other people.
[Looking For Group] 6 of Sally: CO is just visually ugly
Well...yeah.
[Looking For Group] Captain Saskatchewan: CO's graphics look like they were made in 2000 not 2012
Part of that really does come down to the game's style. They wanted that look, fought hard for it. And folks are right, disparaging how their avatars look, when the creative team wanted that look, is completely specious and judgemental.
Doesn't help the feeling, but at least I know I'm being superficial.
[Help] PO'ed Geode: http://www.adultswim.com/bumps/AnimeGamer/save-coh-39901.html
Due to the overwhelming popularity of Adult Swim's "bumps", they've started flipping up suggestions they got. That was one of them. It's been airing.
[Looking For Group] Bishop Saint': What was the livestream link again?
[Looking For Group] All this and brains: well have played WoW, Swtor, even Forsaken/perfect world. Would give them and all my 100+Wow mounts up to keep this game
[Looking For Group] evoL 4ever coh: the costume creator in CO was super annoying
[Looking For Group] Zanriel: http://massively.joystiq.com/livestream
[Looking For Group] Bishop Saint': thanks
On to part II.
09 July, 2012
our safe hearts feeling dangerous; missing truth frozen in lies
Lucie Bluebird put up an expressive post on why One Voice is so important. I'd recommend you check it out.
The Dani 4G blog has more pictures, and a SLUrl to the One Voice event itself.
Why you should support One Voice: forget about Gala for the moment. Yes, the fundraiser's for her legal fees, but seriously, set her aside for right now. The issue is much larger, and much more serious, than just one designer.
Why? Because Gala Phoenix did what we're told we're supposed to do: when we suspect copyright tampering, or IP infringement, we're told to file a DMCA. Because that's the first step, right? Filling it out completely and accurately is how we solve things.
Only...that didn't work in this case. Hush Darkrose--who's been in trouble regarding copyright before, and who's currently lifted digital items from more than just Curio--filed a counter-DMCA, then filed for copyright on her skins, then wrote the malicious blog post which started all this off...ultimately, which severed Gala's ability to keep creating--while still being forced to pay tier to the Lindens for a sim from which she cannot make sales, nor currently access.
And Hush turned in a document from a country where the Lindens don't know the legal structure; even though all claims of legal action on copyright infringement (we're not talking DMCA filings here, we're talking actual court cases) must, by the Lindens' own Terms of Service, be filed (or at least, co-filed concurrently) in San Francisco, California; they received a notice which looked like a court case had been decided in Hush's favor. From Canada.
What did the Lindens do? Again, they did what their Terms of Service told them they must: they banned Gala (temporarily, at least) from the grid, and shunted everything else over to Legal. (Though the last I'd heard, the Lab had fired their chief legal counsel, so do they even have a legal department at this point?)
And that's where we sit. For Gala to get the right to sell her skins again in Second Life, she has to file a court case against an insane woman. Someone who's clearly delusional, or she wouldn't be pressing this so hard. And she has to file it in Canada, which involves at the very least finding a legal team in Canada to represent her, up to going there herself to testify.
That $20,000 figure you're hearing being tossed around--that's not the total. That's the low end. As in, it's going to cost at least twenty thousand, US, to file the report, retain counsel and pay legal fees--and none of that includes travel fees, lodging, food, making copies of her digital proofs, and contacting witnesses. With potentially their travel fees, lodging, food, and any counsel they may feel they need.
And all of this must be paid before Gala can sell again, even though the original "Supreme Court" notice was just a notice of a claim made, not an actual court case that was decided in Hush's favor. Because so far, nothing has been decided in Hush's favor.
And all of this has to be paid while Gala's not receiving a dime from sales in her sim (because it's still closed) or on the Marketplace (because she's still banned from selling there). And her biggest source of income? Second Life.
So here's the thing: put any other designer in Gala's place; it's still scary. This is proof positive than any malicious, jealous soul can stop the process that helps feed us, clothe us, and keep us sheltered from the storm--literally, because if we rely on what we make in Second Life to pay rent, to pay hospital bills, to put food on the table, to pay utility bills...then all of that can go away with one action from the Lindens.
It happened to Azriel Demain. It's happened to Solange Cerveau. It's happened to Maxwell Graf. It's happening to Gala. And it could happen to anyone.
This is not just a fundraiser for Gala Phoenix. It's a banding together of every creator, even those not participating. Because every creator lives under this threat. Every creator could have their life and livelihoods stripped away with a single act.
Unless, y'know, you're actually Hush Darkrose. Then you're just another online predator.
The Dani 4G blog has more pictures, and a SLUrl to the One Voice event itself.
Why you should support One Voice: forget about Gala for the moment. Yes, the fundraiser's for her legal fees, but seriously, set her aside for right now. The issue is much larger, and much more serious, than just one designer.
Why? Because Gala Phoenix did what we're told we're supposed to do: when we suspect copyright tampering, or IP infringement, we're told to file a DMCA. Because that's the first step, right? Filling it out completely and accurately is how we solve things.
Only...that didn't work in this case. Hush Darkrose--who's been in trouble regarding copyright before, and who's currently lifted digital items from more than just Curio--filed a counter-DMCA, then filed for copyright on her skins, then wrote the malicious blog post which started all this off...ultimately, which severed Gala's ability to keep creating--while still being forced to pay tier to the Lindens for a sim from which she cannot make sales, nor currently access.
And Hush turned in a document from a country where the Lindens don't know the legal structure; even though all claims of legal action on copyright infringement (we're not talking DMCA filings here, we're talking actual court cases) must, by the Lindens' own Terms of Service, be filed (or at least, co-filed concurrently) in San Francisco, California; they received a notice which looked like a court case had been decided in Hush's favor. From Canada.
What did the Lindens do? Again, they did what their Terms of Service told them they must: they banned Gala (temporarily, at least) from the grid, and shunted everything else over to Legal. (Though the last I'd heard, the Lab had fired their chief legal counsel, so do they even have a legal department at this point?)
And that's where we sit. For Gala to get the right to sell her skins again in Second Life, she has to file a court case against an insane woman. Someone who's clearly delusional, or she wouldn't be pressing this so hard. And she has to file it in Canada, which involves at the very least finding a legal team in Canada to represent her, up to going there herself to testify.
That $20,000 figure you're hearing being tossed around--that's not the total. That's the low end. As in, it's going to cost at least twenty thousand, US, to file the report, retain counsel and pay legal fees--and none of that includes travel fees, lodging, food, making copies of her digital proofs, and contacting witnesses. With potentially their travel fees, lodging, food, and any counsel they may feel they need.
And all of this must be paid before Gala can sell again, even though the original "Supreme Court" notice was just a notice of a claim made, not an actual court case that was decided in Hush's favor. Because so far, nothing has been decided in Hush's favor.
And all of this has to be paid while Gala's not receiving a dime from sales in her sim (because it's still closed) or on the Marketplace (because she's still banned from selling there). And her biggest source of income? Second Life.
So here's the thing: put any other designer in Gala's place; it's still scary. This is proof positive than any malicious, jealous soul can stop the process that helps feed us, clothe us, and keep us sheltered from the storm--literally, because if we rely on what we make in Second Life to pay rent, to pay hospital bills, to put food on the table, to pay utility bills...then all of that can go away with one action from the Lindens.
It happened to Azriel Demain. It's happened to Solange Cerveau. It's happened to Maxwell Graf. It's happening to Gala. And it could happen to anyone.
This is not just a fundraiser for Gala Phoenix. It's a banding together of every creator, even those not participating. Because every creator lives under this threat. Every creator could have their life and livelihoods stripped away with a single act.
Unless, y'know, you're actually Hush Darkrose. Then you're just another online predator.
17 June, 2012
I need to feel secure
Soooo...there may be a few more of the introspective picture posts, but I'm already sick of myself angsting on the blog. I suppose that's a sign of some (limited) maturity--it only took me a couple of weeks to start rolling my eyes.
So, first up: trolling vs. women, which is a huge topic I'm not going to completely break down today, but I wanted to highlight a couple things from that article.
First, let's go back to Anita Sarkeesian's video project (which closed a day ago, with a truly staggering amount of money raised). She set out reasonable goals, explained why she thought five videos focusing on typical video game tropes for female characters was worth six grand. She explained it well, and yeah--as anyone who's filmed video knows, it takes a bit of financial outlay not to peg the geek-in-the-basement-on-webcam look. Sarkeesian knows this, and also offered an additional incentive--she'd cover eight more topics if she got twelve grand.
Simple, right? Pretty basic. She's young, she's pretty, she has a following, she's smart as a whip, and she knows her community. She figured she'd get the six grand, fairly effortlessly, and thought she might even stretch it to ten grand. And for those funds, she'd revamp her studio, cover all research costs--including buying any videogames necessary and contacting any video game companies for rights to use extended clips if she needed to...and--this was the big selling point for me--after making this set of videos, she would be hosting them free. (Which also covers sending promotional copies to any schools and universities who request them.)
This was a bigger deal than you might think, but she did one more thing, which was absolutely brilliant--she left the comments for the YouTube launch video open and uncensored.
As I've mentioned previously, within five hours she had started receiving a minor deluge of negative comments. But it didn't stop there. It continued, and it got worse, to the point where she routinely received death and rape threats from embittered male gamers with nothing better to do every few minutes.
Honestly, she couldn't have launched a better campaign as to why these videos are so vital, right now, if she'd paid a group of folks to do it. All those comments--many of which she's now hosting on her website to document the level of misogynistic ire leveled at her over the course of funding this--were so over the top, so completely hateful, that the part of the internet that's not comprised of those selfsame embittered jerks rose up in supporting outrage.
When the project closed, it closed with a whopping gift of $158,917 for her. Which, I have no doubt, she will use to keep both her website, and her videos, running strong for quite some time.
Next up, fan rage from a different area, and this one's just baffling: Felicia Day wrote and sung a charming little song about love that spans cultures--in the song, it's between a gamer girl and a country boy. It's really well done, makes its point clearly, fits as a frothy summer country song, and it's funny.
All of those are good things, right? Well...
For reasons I still don't understand, that same embittered male gamer pool of hate rose up and attacked her. Mainly for not "understanding" and for not "being a true gamer". Which just weirds out my brain, because the big reason she started the Guild as a web series is because she was such a fanatic player of WoW, and she suddenly realized that she's really not alone--there were then, and still are today, a ton of folks online because MMORPGs have replaced actual socializing with other humans for them.
(Note: as someone who usually doesn't leave the house herself--though my reasons have more to do with the Nasty Bright Thing overhead than fears of socializing outside--I get that. And a lot of people get that. Which is part of what makes the show watchable.)
A brief selection, reproduced below, for your edification:
The video itself is fun; the two biggest real complaints that people are giving her is they don't like her in yellow eyeshadow (I think that was a deliberate aesthetic choice for the vid to make the point, but yeah, eyeshadow + red hair can be tricky to pull off), and they're not fans of country music. That being said, even the folks who don't like country are saying it was a cute concept, and go her.
Until you get--for lack of a better word--the trolls involved.
I think my main problem with that as a descriptive word is not that it's not accurate--it pretty much is--but because in the gay community, "troll" had a specific meaning several years back. To call someone a "troll" meant you were describing them as disturbing and creepy--it always translated to a fairly well-to-do, generally white, older gay man who picked the youngest men he could find for twisted sex. These relationships, start to finish, were abusive and overpowered--every time the clueless young soul wanted to leave, the troll would toss more money at them and they would stay--unhappy, abused and scared.
I'm just not able to completely divorce that meaning from what the net now terms trolls, but--now that I'm thinking about it--that may not be the worst thing. Because I hear "troll" and I immediately think "dangerous and creepy". That may not be wrong, either.
And overall, the internet needs far, far less of them.
So, first up: trolling vs. women, which is a huge topic I'm not going to completely break down today, but I wanted to highlight a couple things from that article.
First, let's go back to Anita Sarkeesian's video project (which closed a day ago, with a truly staggering amount of money raised). She set out reasonable goals, explained why she thought five videos focusing on typical video game tropes for female characters was worth six grand. She explained it well, and yeah--as anyone who's filmed video knows, it takes a bit of financial outlay not to peg the geek-in-the-basement-on-webcam look. Sarkeesian knows this, and also offered an additional incentive--she'd cover eight more topics if she got twelve grand.
Simple, right? Pretty basic. She's young, she's pretty, she has a following, she's smart as a whip, and she knows her community. She figured she'd get the six grand, fairly effortlessly, and thought she might even stretch it to ten grand. And for those funds, she'd revamp her studio, cover all research costs--including buying any videogames necessary and contacting any video game companies for rights to use extended clips if she needed to...and--this was the big selling point for me--after making this set of videos, she would be hosting them free. (Which also covers sending promotional copies to any schools and universities who request them.)
This was a bigger deal than you might think, but she did one more thing, which was absolutely brilliant--she left the comments for the YouTube launch video open and uncensored.
As I've mentioned previously, within five hours she had started receiving a minor deluge of negative comments. But it didn't stop there. It continued, and it got worse, to the point where she routinely received death and rape threats from embittered male gamers with nothing better to do every few minutes.
Honestly, she couldn't have launched a better campaign as to why these videos are so vital, right now, if she'd paid a group of folks to do it. All those comments--many of which she's now hosting on her website to document the level of misogynistic ire leveled at her over the course of funding this--were so over the top, so completely hateful, that the part of the internet that's not comprised of those selfsame embittered jerks rose up in supporting outrage.
When the project closed, it closed with a whopping gift of $158,917 for her. Which, I have no doubt, she will use to keep both her website, and her videos, running strong for quite some time.
Next up, fan rage from a different area, and this one's just baffling: Felicia Day wrote and sung a charming little song about love that spans cultures--in the song, it's between a gamer girl and a country boy. It's really well done, makes its point clearly, fits as a frothy summer country song, and it's funny.
All of those are good things, right? Well...
For reasons I still don't understand, that same embittered male gamer pool of hate rose up and attacked her. Mainly for not "understanding" and for not "being a true gamer". Which just weirds out my brain, because the big reason she started the Guild as a web series is because she was such a fanatic player of WoW, and she suddenly realized that she's really not alone--there were then, and still are today, a ton of folks online because MMORPGs have replaced actual socializing with other humans for them.
(Note: as someone who usually doesn't leave the house herself--though my reasons have more to do with the Nasty Bright Thing overhead than fears of socializing outside--I get that. And a lot of people get that. Which is part of what makes the show watchable.)
A brief selection, reproduced below, for your edification:
We the true male gaming community are offended that women who supposedly are the same as us still date fucking asshole that they have nothing in common with.and
(IbukiTimeMagus)
sad is that I can actually sing, and this girl gets this kind of exposure when all she is , is a sorta pretty face.and
I am way cooler than Felicia Day, I make effin video games.
(blacksparrw)
She gets this kind of exposure because she's a girl that can pander to nerds.and
(initialdavid)
Most "gamer girls" are actually garbage at games. Like, she doesn't have to wear tettris leggings or anything, but is it too much to ask for one to be under 150lbs and also be able to play through a Resident Evil game?and
(HutchHowTo)
idk why people think felicia is attractive, She is so uglyand
(r7ws31)
If a guy went around shoving (supposedly) traditionally feminine acts in girls faces and constantly reminded them they were a... I dunno, "BOY BAKER", or some shit, girls would get kinda pissed off, right? I'm tired of this "Yeah, I'm a GAMER GIRL" shit. You're not a "gamer girl". You're a gamer. You don't hold the frakking controller with your vagina, so why bring it into the conversation.It goes on, but I think you get the point.
(AegisTyra)
The video itself is fun; the two biggest real complaints that people are giving her is they don't like her in yellow eyeshadow (I think that was a deliberate aesthetic choice for the vid to make the point, but yeah, eyeshadow + red hair can be tricky to pull off), and they're not fans of country music. That being said, even the folks who don't like country are saying it was a cute concept, and go her.
Until you get--for lack of a better word--the trolls involved.
I think my main problem with that as a descriptive word is not that it's not accurate--it pretty much is--but because in the gay community, "troll" had a specific meaning several years back. To call someone a "troll" meant you were describing them as disturbing and creepy--it always translated to a fairly well-to-do, generally white, older gay man who picked the youngest men he could find for twisted sex. These relationships, start to finish, were abusive and overpowered--every time the clueless young soul wanted to leave, the troll would toss more money at them and they would stay--unhappy, abused and scared.
I'm just not able to completely divorce that meaning from what the net now terms trolls, but--now that I'm thinking about it--that may not be the worst thing. Because I hear "troll" and I immediately think "dangerous and creepy". That may not be wrong, either.
And overall, the internet needs far, far less of them.
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there's nothing but chains around me
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