but I'd have to lay dead so long that I wouldn't have a chance to come back here and tell my friends (part 1)

Why do these exist? I'm just confused.

But onto the topic at hand. I got into a conversation about recent...shall we say...new restrictive policies in one of my gifts and cheapies groups. (Not identifying the group, per usual, but if you know, you know.) But during that conversation, something came up about another recent patch of drama that had occurred earlier this morning.

So, I am going to anonymize the user to which this happened, but I am leaving everything else intact. And I've kept the original card, if anyone wants it. This is with permission, as noted below. And I'm also pretty sure this is going to be long, so this is the first of two (at least) entries.

On 5 November 1605, Guy Fawkes, a member of the Gunpowder Plot, attempted to blow up the House of Lords in England On 5 November 2019, [Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx] let blew her lid off and here is what happened in [the group in question]

Enjoy and feel free to share

I skipped the beginning section, to get to the relevant sections, but the notecard has everything.

[05:53] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Yeah ! finally got into that sim to slap my fav MMs
[05:53] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Sorry, not postable here
[05:54] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Any texture places you guys might know ?
[05:54] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: ohh everyday thy post some, but I can't remember the names aww
[05:54] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [PX] : USC, Timeless and Philomena are now "Do Not Post"

For anyone lost, the Philomena mentioned there is the designer for Texture Junction.

[05:55] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: really??? timeless it is posted daily
[05:55] hxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: they moved to a new sim and now got classified as a "mall"

Now, this is very odd. Because Xzavia hasn't changed a thing in her store environment, save for a new build FOR the store--she had mini-stores rented off her main store for all her former years of operation, and, now that she's on the adult sim, she's done the same thing. She is not a mall, if by the earlier standards she qualified, because they're even the same stores!

[05:55] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yikes!!
[05:55] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I know, lol, but recently they classd it as "Mall" - Just saying
[05:56] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: *smh* sad
[05:56] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but if you have the LM go anyway. Only not posting.
[05:56] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Hxxxxxxx], yes. Xavia (Timeless) has built a big mall around her new place, and Phil built on a sim theat has "Mall" in the sim name

Yeah, no, that's not accurate. She had satellite shops on her last sim. She has satellite shops on this one. They're even the same satellite shops for the most part. So she's either NOT a mall now, or she IS a mall now, and she always WAS, so nothing's changed.

[05:57] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: a Mall is a Mal (evil) *chuckle*
[05:57] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Oh I still go, lol, just feel the fingers fighting to post lol
[05:57] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Well, there is a story about Malls, and how and why they were banned in [this group]
[05:57] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: *puts an icecream on [Cxxxxxxx's] fingers*
[05:58] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: "they" were banned because they caused floods of posts, mostly for not-so-good items
[05:58] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Malls have.... very assorted stores. I think that is the reason.

These rules date from the same era as the no vehicles rules, no MMs in clubs, and no animation/pose/AO shop MMs, because those three categories were generally full of ripped content, and many of the malls at that time sold that ripped content, and this group wanted to sidestep that entire mess.

[05:59] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: At the time, a Mall was a collection of small, cheaply rented shops, with a few MMs or LCs inside, most in sight of each other
[05:59] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: So somebody wold walk into a Mall, and post 20 shops, followed by other members posting an other flood of MMs there
[06:00] Xxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I can admit to being curious about that...though I can make some guesses...not a big thing to me, really, as group owners can make whatever rules they want. I can imagine there must have been some bad experiences at some point.
[06:00] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Not criticising, just telling a story around the camp fire
[06:00] Xxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: And some of what I see posted would have been my guesses
[06:00] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: bad experience eas flood of posts
[06:01] Xxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I am only 3-plus years in SL, so not familiar with a lot history..good or bad
[06:01] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Nowadays, if you look at a "Mall" like Timeless Textures, it is a different beast. More quality, fewer shops
[06:02] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but the "No Malls" rule habit is now engrained, to the point where Mods will refuse to have a look, and allow _That_Mall_Only to be posted

It's worse than that, because the mods approved Timeless before. They won't now. And it's not just the shift from Moderate to Adult on the sim--they've allowed Adult sims before, as long as there is nothing in direct view that has adult animations, or can be in any way considered adult. And I know this for a fact--Xzavia pored over the ToS where child avatars and Adult sims were concerned. NOTHING happens that is Zindra-level Adult on her sim. It's just shops in the sky, there's no access to any Adult items, furniture, attire, period. It's essentially PG in that regard, so it SHOULD be approved by the mods, exactly as it was before.

But oh no, it's suddenly a "Mall" and nope, can't be posted.

[06:03] hxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Yup. I was told in no uncertain terms yesterday that they will not consider that.
[06:03] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: we lost some stores that way, but we need keep going ahead

But do we, is the question I have. Take the example of Timeless again. She is no more a mall than she was before, which is to say, she's either not a mall now, or she was a mall then. Pick one and hold to it, but don't tell me she wasn't a mall before, and she IS now, and THAT'S why you don't allow it, because that means a) you're lying to my face or b) stupid beyond all redemption. Which is it?

[06:04] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: What bugs me is not "The Rules"... Just the way the newest bunch of Mods have been interpreting them... To the letter, strictly, and not to the spirit for which they were intended
[06:04] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Old hands here will know what I am talking about if they were here 6 or 7 years ago
[06:05] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Well, keep hunting, ask a Mod if it can be posted, repeat
[06:05] Nxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: There is a group that does allow malls that does allow shops in adult areas that even allows adult material , just not this group , this group is only for gatcha give aways and for pg shops

Uh...since when? This group has, since the VERY BEGINNING, been for Midnight Manias, Mini-Manias, group gifts, extremely discounted items, and for posting free-to-join groups if needed to get their group gifts. Since when was it only for posting gacha giveaways?

[06:06] yxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but we look fabulous, anyway *winks*
[06:06] Nxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: exactly
[06:06] hxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I am no longer comfortable posting any stores in this group. Even if I do my absolute best to follow the rules as I know and understand them after several eyars in the group, I get shouted at every time. Not politely corrected. Shot down. It's not worth it.

And this reaction is getting posted more and more after. Even I've basically come to the conclusion that unless what I have to say is something I think utterly inoffensive and within all bounds of all rules, I won't post, or chat. Because 90% of the time I'm corrected anyway.

[06:07] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and you are not the only one to feel that way
[06:08] hxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: It's really sad as I used to love it.

Me too.

[06:09] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: 5 years ago, it was great
[06:09] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: There were arguments with the Mods at times, sure, but the atmosphere was different
[06:09] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and Mods were usually polite, never openly insulting
[06:10] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: 7 years in this Group, and I never saw anyone being shouted at in CAPS in Group
[06:10] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Until [Dxxxxx] showed up
[06:11] Nxxx Gxxxxxxxx: what exactly is the thing people keep getting shot down for? I usually just close this chat so I rarely see it
[06:11] hxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: That's the thing. I could get used to it, if the moderation treated us as humans who were trying, then I could get used ot the rules being tightened. But I won't be shouted at when I'm trying the best I can to comply.

To be fair, she has a point. I think all of us are getting beyond tired of being treated as misbehaving five-year-olds when we make mistakes and post things that are against the rules that we never see posted anywhere. It would be nice to be treated as adults, and simply told, X is not allowed, and we'd all move on. Instead, there's a lot of condescension, and that sensation of rulers snapping over knuckles, and it's getting draining to deal with.

[06:11] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: 2 of my friends saw that, and went... That's is, not posting anymore when Her Majesty is here
[06:11] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: uh uh
[06:12] hxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: And to be fair, some mods still do, some are still great, when they're here.
[06:13] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: amd when a Mod says "Read The Rules", do they understand how that makes you feel ? You know the rules, you have read them for 7 years, just this time, you could not see that this skybox shop was a Mall... No way... but they still hit you with a "Read Thre Rules"

And again, keep in mind, when they say "Read the Rules", these are the rules:

[Group name] is an international shopping group for daily notices about frees, sales & nice gifts!

Our blog: [blog site address]

NOT ALLOWED in chat:
Store ads/spam/self-promotion
3 lines MAX posts
MP & most outside links
Drama/rudeness
Criticizing stores/gifts
Malls-Franchises
Disco/Club/DJ ads
Breedables
Rental/sale
Most Adult sims/items
Gambling
Pay MM/LBs/gifts
RP: OOC only
NO blog links
AO with adult anim
Vehicles

Question? contact [Exxxx], [Hxxxx Rxxxxxxx] or [Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx]

And two of those three names, according to the third (mentioned in the next entry), are not good contact points because they never log in anymore. So...why list them? How is that effective?

[06:13] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: then follow the rules

You say that like the rules are obvious. They aren't. They used to be, even up to a year ago, but now there are the stated rules in the group's description, and about five pages now of "unofficial" rules no one's being told about until they're in violation of one or more of them.

[06:13] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Yes. Forget some names, because they are not here as often as before, but [Zxx] is a great Mod, some others too
[06:14] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: although they all have hardened under the new namagement

I think so, too. And I'd love to know where the new level of stubborn thick-headedness is coming from. I have my theories, but nothing's confirmed as of yet.

[06:14] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: it is nice to see when you log in that Mods don't seem to do a good job when they point out the rules
[06:14] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: thank you fo rthat info

Way to take everything completely personally, Ms. R. Listen. Mm. C is saying NOTHING NEW. These points have come up in the past. There is unrest in the group and much of it can be laid at the feet of the moderators. Things need to change, and no mod in this group seems either willing to, or capable of, the change needed.

[06:15] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hi [rxxx]
[06:15] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Rxxx], telling someone to read the rules will not make that person see that a shop is a Mall

Especially when it's not a mall.

[06:16] lxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i think your doing a great job
[06:17] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: some things are general knowledge and if you are told it is a mall and you did not recognize it as such - it is a learning point
[06:17] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: It is, yes, but at the cost of a painful face
[06:17] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: It is also the way it is done...
[06:18] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: we all have those moments, I just had one when I read what yiu said
[06:18] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: The member reads "It is a mall, you idiot, can't you read"
[06:18] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: that is their opinion, not the tntention of a mod who wrote it

Are you sure?

[06:18] hxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I think the issue is in how it is communicated. "Sorry x, that store just moved to a mall sim and is no longer allowed in chat" is very different from "read the rules" iwth no further explanation. The latter is the kind of thing we're feeling frustrated with. The former is reasonable and treats us like persons.

Yes. This. Absolutely this.

[06:19] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: We are all human, and some of us have mental health problems. We come in here to relax and escape our problems, and a lot of us feel that it might be better if we were talked to in a way we would find friendlier, more supportive
[06:19] hxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: To be clear [Rxxx], I have never seen the latter kind of thing from you personally.
[06:19] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i do
[06:19] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Right [Hxxxxxxx]
[06:19] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: Mods are usually extremely busy with checking stores, watching chat and trying to post some nice free things.
[06:19] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: which does not justify rudeness
[06:20] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: And sometimes they react in a short way, like I am sure you do from time to time too
[06:20] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: that is not being rude but just a sign of too much to do and no time to explain properly

You know how you fix this? Put a link in the group description. Send all your mods that link. That link will be to a blog site, or a website page, and all it needs to say is here's a list of the basic rules, and why they're rules. You could send that out to anyone who asks why. Take all of five minutes to put it together, and all of two seconds to paste it into chat. Why not do that?

[06:20] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Rxxx], you've been here for long time and you know that the tone changed recently in this chat... it's not occasional, it's systematic
[06:20] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Mods do a stressful job... and they might want to consider that the stress they are subjected to shows off in the way they handle queries
[06:21] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yea
[06:21] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and there is no need for a Mod to shout at people, in CAPS, for a minor offence
[06:21] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: in Group, or im IM
[06:21] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx:
[06:22] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: snapping has become the rule
[06:22] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and people got tired of being snapped at
[06:22] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yep

They're so not kidding. It gets demeaning and demoralizing after a while, and makes me not want to keep the group window open when it pops open. And at that point, why am I in the group if I'm literally ignoring the reason it exists in the first place--posting MMs and stores with gifts to go get?

[06:22] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: personally I am bored to the point I close the window...
[06:22] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: they are doing there job
[06:22] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: bothered not bored
[06:23] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Lxxx] you are2 years old
[06:23] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Rxxx], you are doing a lot of work, you keep us informed, you are grea6t, and no offence meant personally, but please take a look at what we have said. This Group is hardening, losing it's fun and friendly atmosphere, and that is bad news for everyone
[06:23] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: so what
[06:23] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: you have no idea of how things were here before
[06:23] Sxxx Ixxxx: Snapping is usually a sign of stress ...I do it RL when stress levels go up. Do Mods get holidays or stress relief day off ?
[06:23] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i watch my groups
[06:23] Rxxxxxxxx Rxxxx: mayb it is time I should leave

I would never suggest a particular mod leave a group where they're doing valuable work, but...maybe you should.

[06:23] Pxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol
[06:23] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: let's put this this other way
[06:23] axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: HUGS, [Rxxx]
[06:23] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: 3 years ago mods were not stressed and didn't snap at people....
[06:24] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: no
[06:24] Cxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Rxxx], you are takingthis personally, and you feel under attack
[06:24] Sxxx Ixxxx: We love [Rxxx]!
[06:24] lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hugs and cookies to everyone, I had enough of this drama and I'll better close this window before I say more

And we'll stop here, to go on to the next part.