Monday, September 7, 2015

let's be honest, perhaps this little ride is too much for even you to bear

Another day, another chat going all dramatic in one particular group...

[23:29] exxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: 43/60 for complete outfit for man and 40/60 for a spanish lace at "the gentry store" . All transfer.
[23:35] Zxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: jewelry?
[23:38] vxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hey girls I was looking for nice nose ring with chain going to ear, but hard to find nice and simple one, maybe someone knows some shops where I could find something like that?

Simple question, we expect fairly simple answers, right?

[23:40] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and look at Zuri too, [Zxxxx] :)
[23:42] vxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: thanks
[23:42] Sxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: PA DESIGNE MAINSTORE
[23:43] Zxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: thANK U

Yes, fine, but can we stop shouting now?

[23:44] mxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Several group gifts. 2 lucky chairs and 2 mm boards (29/80) at
[23:46] exxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: 2 cliks more for man, 3 for woman

You missed the store name on those last ones--the first is Xxxtasi, the second is the Gentry Store again--but we're about to have bigger problems, frankly.

[23:47] exxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: All Transfer
[23:47] Axxxx Jxxxxx: it's ugly and non mesh
[23:48] Axxxx Jxxxxx: not worth a click

So, remember a few days back, we had the lass who was so dead-set against mesh, she was willing to insult the skin designer in the skin group she was in? This is her opposite counterpart. Miss [Axxxx] is pretty dead-set against anything that's not mesh, at this point.

[23:49] mxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Renee India Shop- MM board (8/50) and 2 lucky chairs and a free gift at the front desk. No group needs.
[23:49] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: that's rude, [Axxxx]
[23:50] 1xxxxxx Hxxxxxxx: [f***] mesh mesh suxs you have to change you r body so it fits i want my body the way it is i will not changhe my body just to wear a mesh out fit
[23:51] Kxxxxxxxx Bxxxxx: language please
[23:51] Axxxx Jxxxxx: no, that's honest

I don't know about honest or dishonest, but I do think Ms. [Ixxxxxx] should at least employ spellcheck now and again. Plus, yes, this group asks that you not curse in the chat, so Ms. [Kxxxxxxxx] was perfectly within group rules to chide her for language use.

[23:51] Axxxx Jxxxxx: no you don't need that with fit mesh stuff lmfao
[23:51] Fxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: some of us like mesh
[23:51] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: :( that's not polite either...
[23:51] Axxxx Jxxxxx: I just said the outfit looks ugly, I commited no crime here, chill

Actually, you did, again according to the rules of this particular group. Part of their chat rules involve not tearing down designers or their creations. So, for example, I could irritate the hell out of a designer by mentioning their work on this blog--and I have, more than once--but I'd never do it in this chat group. Because in addition to being rude, it's against their desires for user conversation in their group. (Note the specifics being, their group.)

[23:51] Kxxxxxxxx Bxxxxx: think some people need to learn some manners

That's a steadily growing problem in Western countries overall. While we see it online fairly obviously, it's also happening off the grid. Parents who have no comprehension of social behavior and proper etiquette are raising children with no comprehension of social behavior and proper etiquette. And those children raise children who lack these basic concepts, as well. It's not just that these people are blatantly ignoring these social cues; it's that they literally have no concept that they should even look for these cues, because their environment didn't include these instructions in behavior growing up.

[23:51] rxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: some people like mesh, some people don't. end of story. there is no debate
[23:51] lxxxxxx Mxxxxx: yes I'm know!
[23:52] Sxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: ugly for you not for all. We are an heper group !

Um...did you mean..."helper" group? I mean, we try, but the only other thing that comes to mind with that is "hyper", and by and large, we really aren't, so...??

[23:52] Sxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: why not have 75 different shapes to fit mesh outfits? you're limiting yourself if you wot wear stuff that all you need to do is tweak your ass a few points to fit

Because that's vastly irritating, and I say that having three or four kitten shapes, three or four human shapes, a specific shape to wear kimonos, and a couple of fae shapes. Even with all that, I wouldn't want to stock my inventory with "Pink Zebra Minidress Shape", say. If it doesn't fit my standard couple of forms, I generally don't keep that outfit, unless I fall in love with it, then I'll change my shape. But even after, I'll expect all new mesh acquisitions to fit that shape.

[23:52] 1xxxxxx Hxxxxxxx: yes it is ty
[23:52] Sxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: helper ....(sorry)

Good to have confirmation. Yay for figuring it out!

[23:53] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: ugly for you maybe... but still it's not polite to criticize that way someone else's work
[23:53] Sxxxxx Dxxxxxx: No, no crime, but someone is nice enough to share something free with you, if you do not like it----simply do not take it instead of saying pretty much their time in putting the link was not worth clicking it, btw not everyone wears mesh yet
[23:53] Axxxx Jxxxxx: I took a TP and got crashed because of that crowd lagging like hell for an old noob-looking outfit

Reference that "not everyone wears mesh yet" statement. Nearly the whole of Caledon, for example, not only does not wear mesh, but in general holds to older viewers that can't even view mesh properly.

So system layers still have their place.

Not only that, but you're blaming the designer because their store was crowded? My goodness, if that were true for the grid, June Dion would have been burned in effigy two million times over. I'd take that more as a sign that people are looking at that designer's wares, that the designer might, in fact, be reasonably popular.

Now, I won't lie, I am making an effort to integrate more mesh into my wardrobe. But do I still have system layer outfits? Absolutely. I likely always will. Not simply because I like them, still, but because for more crowded events, wearing mesh is a burden on the event sim, so I scale back to system layer clothing, low-prim hair, a simpler AO to help. And there are times where I just want to throw something on and not worry about alpha layers, and what I should wear under them to go with the outfit (because the way mesh rezzes with various browsers is so appalling, I never leave hovel these days without at least panties and bra, if not something more elaborate). These are all good reasons, to me at least, to keep system layers around.

[23:53] Mxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yes there are lots of peeps I know that are not mesh fans also..
[23:53] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: language, PLEASE
[23:54] Axxxx Jxxxxx: it's called freedom of speech, and critics help producing better work :) it's free advice

  1. There is no freedom of speech on SL. As a corporate entity, it can restrict language and topics at any time. Note their rules on referencing, portraying, or imaging in any way ageplay that involves either actual children, or virtual child avatars. They can absolutely curtail speech if they wish to.
  2. There is no freedom of speech in this group. They have rules and banned topics and they expect them to be obeyed. And mods of the group are not shy about muting people from chatting, or outright banning folks if needed.
  3. While I agree that critique is helpful, as the whole point of fashion review is to provide constructive commentary, "critique" isn't what you did. You outright said something was ugly beyond all reason. That is NOT. ALLOWED.
[23:54] pxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: really rude for people to whine and complain over something they are not paying for

That too. It's also an effective way to discourage designers to make gifts for the group at all.

[23:54] Kxxxxxxxx Bxxxxx: [Axxxx], watch your language please, and be more respectful
[23:54] Axxxx Jxxxxxs: I have the right to say it's ugly, sorry for the person who designed it
[23:54] Kxxxxxxxx Bxxxxx: you do not
[23:55] Axxxxx Vxxxxxxxx: nope sorry

Indeed no, because while Ms. [Kxxxxxxxx] was not a mod, Ms. [Axxxxx] was.

[23:55] pxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: just because you think something is not attractive doesnt mean 10k other people ont loe it , this is a place for designers nice eough to offer things to people and there are a million flavors because people all have different tastes
[23:56] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: no, you haven't, keep it for you, just don't click
[23:56] fxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: omg, a hater on the loose
[23:56] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Axxxx], you wouldn't like to hear people saying that what you do or the way you look is ugly and noobish... respect is the first thing

Very true. I pretty much stand behind everything I've said, which means I also stand behind the abusive, vicious, clueless or downright idiotic things as well. I have made mistakes, I will make mistakes, I do my best to acknowledge them when they happen. Some are errors in judgement that can be fixed with time and care. Some can't be, and I do my best to accept that.

But what Miss [Axxxx] seems to be doing is claiming she has the right to speak so cluelessly; not only that, but that her saying a system-layer outfit is ugly, "noobish" and of poor quality simply because it's not mesh is intended as CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. For every stupid thing I've said on this blog, I have never said that my hurtful comments were constructive, because they weren't.

[23:56] Kxxxxxxxx Bxxxxx: can she be ejected?
[23:56] Rxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: thats harsh

I don't think so, actually. While this conversation was short in the grand scheme of such things, Miss [Axxxx] was aggressive, unruly, and totally insensible where advice to change her chosen path was offered--up to and including when said advice came from a group moderator.

[23:56] Rxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: time of the moon
[23:57] axxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: wow what's the drama about?
[23:57] Kxxxxxxxx Bxxxxx: take a look at the rules [Axxxx]
[23:57] Axxxxx Vxxxxxxxx: she can

I'm beginning to think that no one reads these days, outside of Caledon. Possibly Winterfell.

[23:57] rxxxxxx Bxxxxxxxxx: oh here we go with the freedom of speech argument.. the first amendment protects you from the government. not from other people thinking your opinion sucks
[23:57] Rxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: 0.0 pulls up a chair n offers out the popcorn
[23:57] Yxxxxx Qxxx: I can not imagine walking into MACY*S to demand a free outfit, then complain it is not stylish enough.

I can't either. But so many people on the grid seem to expect free outfits, jewelry sets, skins, eyes, hair, whatever, as simply their due for deigning to set virtual foot into a given store. Freebies are a privilege, not a right.

[23:57] Axxxxx Vxxxxxxxx: [Axxxx Jxxxxx] has been ejected from '[group name]' by [Axxxxx Vxxxxxxxx]

Some people you can't help, no matter how hard you try. You simply have to show them the door.

[23:58] rxxxx Sxxxxxxxxx: opinions are opinions but should have respect enough to keep your opinions to yourself unless someone ask for it
[23:58] Rxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: freedom of speech is a basic human right not just for amecians lmao
[23:59] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I feel sorry for you actually since you can't see how obvious it is... it's a gift... don't want it, don't slap that board... you're insulting the people who like it

Because my tastes obviously aren't everyones' tastes, and their tastes aren't mine. We live in too diverse a world for that. And everyone being exactly the same would be so dreadfully dull, anyway.

[23:59] sxxxxx Bxxxxxxx: why we [Axxxxx]
[23:59] Kxxxxxxxx Bxxxxx: you need to have respect too [Dxxx]
[00:00] Kxxxxxxxx Bxxxxx: well done [Axxxxx]
[00:00] Sxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: you do not have freedom of speech in a chat group you do not own
[00:00] Sxxxxx Dxxxxxx: All we are saying is take what you want from the group, but please acknowledge that someone took time to post something they found for free that may not be everyone's style, none the less they thought enough to post it.
[00:00] Sxxxxx Dxxxxxx: oh she is gone, opps YAYYYYY [Axxxxx] :)

Yay, Ms. [Axxxxx], indeed.

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