Thursday, February 19, 2015

did you have to do this? I was thinking that you could be trusted

(continued from part one)

How'ver, that wasn't the point of quoting this section of chat. That started a bit later...

[00:13] vxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Axx] why are you a velociraptor?
[00:13] lxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Who cares I wanna be one!
[00:13] lxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hahahaa
[00:14] Dxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Lxx: me too I wanna be a velociraptor
[00:14] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: cos i CAN! :P
[00:14] Dxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Lxx: lol
[00:14] Axxxxxxxxxxxx Sxxxxxxx: Taht's the best answer [Axx]
[00:14] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: i thought so too lol
[00:14] lxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol we're all gathered here today to find out what happened to sarcastic.... and look at a velociraptor


Well, that's always fun. Not what happened with SaRcAsTIC, but the velociraptor av. And no, I didn't catch where to get it.

[00:15] xxxxxxxx Bxxxx: now that is sooo cruel n cold of ll... how can they just tell u.. we gonna take ur money unless u tell us who u are.... heck.. they get enough info when we sigh up.. isnt that enough....god bless her... she will get thru this
[00:15] vxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: trots off to become a lossyraptor too
[00:16] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: ta!
[00:16] cxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: tyvm
[00:17] lxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx sighs
[00:18] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: trust me [xxxxxxx] they already know who you are...
[00:19] vxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yay i got a Velociraptor
[00:20] Mxxxxx Zxxx: mi am dat log out din greseala
[00:20] vxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: say wha


Google Translate said, "I gave my mistake log out"; Bing Translator said "I got logged out by mistake". So now we know?

[00:21] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: [Xxx], the same thing happened to me over the Summer. I had to provide my RL credentials to LL in order to access my accounts and cash out. With me, it was a taxable income issue, nothing more - nothing less. Once I submitted my ID, all was right back on track. Our LindenDollars equate to real life dollars, simple as. In my case, I was not being persecuted or penalised in any way. The IRS wants its share, again, simple as. SL is also the perfect grouns for money laundering - LL needs to protect itself from any complicity. Makes perfect sense. That said, I have no idea what the issue is with SaRcAsTIC, that was just my experience.

Right, but again, I'd be willing to bet this person lives in the US, not overseas.

[00:21] axxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Thankies. ^^
[00:21] xxxxxxxx Bxxxx: wow......
[00:22] lxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: My thoughts exactly [Fxxxxx]... it's a taxation issue, which is unfortunate but a fact of life
[00:22] kxxxx Dxxxxxxxxx: does anyone know if 7deadlyskins is still free?
[00:22] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: still free to join
[00:22] vxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yes
[00:24] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: any income from sl is taxable income in the us and if you do not file taxes on your income LL is liable and believe me they do not want the IRS on their butt any more than you want them on yours


Again, true, but the issue of whether US law applies to international accounts accepting income from transactions made on AMerican servers hasn't been adequately settled for the internationals, at least.

[00:24] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: And it was a blanket suspendion, btw.. ALL of my accounts were not accessible. I use the same email address for the lot.
[00:25] xxxxxxxx Bxxxx: wow
[00:26] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: if it's for tax?...not a lot you can do really :(
[00:27] Ixxxx Wxxxxxxx: I never thought about money laundering. That makes my head hurt thinking about all of the boundary case issues there.
[00:27] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: sure you can give them your payment info and get your accounts unlocked


It's not that simple. Verifying with the Lab used to be a simple case of 'here's my credit card'; it's not anymore. In fact, one of the key difficulties is that the verification form online asks for a driver's licence number, or an EIN. If one does not live in the US, there may be no driver's licence number the form would recognize, and to apply for an EIN number for an international is a thorny path on its own; generally, that establishes residency, for a brick-and-mortar building, which SL is manifestly not.

[00:27] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: i wouldn't have thought of that either to be honest
[00:29] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: In the case of SaRcaStiC, somehow the pwner's account [...]


The "pwner's account"??

[...] and the account that LL is asking for information about have been linked - no idea how or why, and anything not coming fro the owner herself, or her group representatvie would just be conjecture and the stuff of rumours.
[00:29] zxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: If someone is from another country and makes money in SL, how can the US government tax them for it? I am curious if that is possible. Hhhmmm something to check into. I mean I have no idea if she is from the US or not but kind of something to think about
[00:30] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: how about if i spent $1,000 in your store for example and you are actually working for IS and you cash that $1000 out and use it to buy weapons... now there is no money trail to follow
[00:30] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: lol


Which is pretty much ludicrous--not that there may not be criminal forces working in SL, because of a surety there are, but to assume that anyone might be part of the Islamic State, so LL is requesting this information to establish a paper trail and verifiable deniability...well, at some point, you either trust or you don't. If you're mistrusting folks to that extent, then what's to stop them from generating a real-sounding, but wholly fake address?

And then...

[00:30] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Warning! This is a bad one. Please pass this message out to as many friends and groups as you can. If anyone passes you a gift from someone you know or dont know which may be called "stick21" delete it immediately. This thing is nasty! Do not rez it or wear it and if possible do not accept it. It does real damage to your pc and SL via spamming your viewer and emails which if opened shut your pc down.
[00:30] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: those groups use programs like SL to communicat all the time
[00:30] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: aww...NOT AGAIN!
[00:30] xxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: oh wow
[00:31] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: Please /don't/ post that to all of your friends. Please just adcise them NOT to take candy from stangers or open things that they are not familiar with.
[00:31] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: stop spamming...that message is pure BS...it can't affect your PC!
[00:31] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: those "objects that steal you L$" belong in the urban legend file between global warming and yete.. but.... someone did get their 15 minutes of fame out if it because everyone in sl is talking about them now
[00:31] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: scaremonger griefing is all that is
[00:31] exxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: its hitting all my groups now
[00:31] exxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: geeeesh
[00:31] rxxx Jxxxxxxxx: Besides, that "warning" is a hoax that has been going around for at least 5 years.


This particular iteration is new, but the text is pretty much the same, yes.

[00:32] Axxxxxxxxxxxx Sxxxxxxx debates on the next person's punishment if they post this in the group again
[00:32] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: that same notice has gone through sl 4 times today
[00:32] Mxxx Gxxxxxxxx: [sxxxxxxxx], as far as I'm aware people pay taxes in their country, like a british creator in SL pays tax on SL income in the UK to the British government, because the amounts involved aren't that high really


And getting back to this, yes, this is the point--many internationals are complaining that, essentially, to operate in SL, they need to:
  • pay a premium monthly fee
  • plus pay additional VAT fees on any sim they rent
  • plus pay taxes in their native country
  • and now pay US taxes in additional to their own taxes
  • AND give personally identifying information to the Lab, an action with is banned by law in many European countries
Many internationals feel frustrated, angered, and trapped by these restrictions and rulings, and they're leaving in literal droves because of it.

[00:33] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: i'm SO tempted to AR the next person who sends that
[00:33] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i'm sorry if you guys take it as spam, I meant no bad intention in sending it out
[00:33] txxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Axxxxxxxxx], take a chill pill -.-


[Axxxxxxxxx] is a mod in this group, as I've previously mentioned. Never tell a mod to calm down, it doesn't end well.

[00:33] mxxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: chat was already closed once today cause of that stupid warning being posted every 10 minutes.... don't start it again....
. [00:33] Axxxxxxxxxxxx Sxxxxxxx: [Txxxxx], we closed down group chat earlier because of all the spam that went through here because of that one notice
[00:33] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: CHILL PILL!?!
[00:33] exxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: inhale exhale
[00:34] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: Perhaps somoene wanter HER 15 minutes of fame by bringing the "good news" to everyone :)
[00:34] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: passes [axxxxxxxxx] one of my vicodine and a glass of wine
[00:34] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx sits on hands for a few mins
[00:34] Exxxxxxxx Kxxxxxxxx: it seems someone named Chrissy has been spamming all the other groups too with the same notice
[00:34] Exxxxxxxx Kxxxxxxxx: Chrissy Ziplon


I'm leaving Ms. Ziplon's name intact, because this isn't the first time I've tangled with her spamming groups with either disallowed things, begging for Lindens, or outright "warnings" like this one. It's not impossible that her account may have been hacked; but if it has, it's been months and she hasn't regained control of it yet. Me, I have her muted as a spammer.

[00:35] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: i think theres mor people less gullible nowadays....i've not seen it much apart from that mass of messages in here earlier
[00:35] xxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: well said [Axxxx]
[00:36] Mxxx Gxxxxxxxx: anyone who tried to steal my L$ would be very disappointed
[00:36] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: lol
[00:37] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: weren't we just discussing kitten lair or something for mesh shapes??


Mesh bodies, actually.

AND THEN--

[00:37] Axxx Kxxx: Warning! This is a bad one. Please pass this message out to as many friends and groups as you can. If anyone passes you a gift from someone you know or dont know which may be called "stick21" delete it immediately. This thing is nasty! Do not rez it or wear it and if possible do not accept it. It does real damage to your pc and SL via spamming your viewer and emails which if opened shut your pc down.
[00:38] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: [Axxx]?...pls stop sending that spam...it's garbage, lies and a hoax!
[00:38] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: passes [axxxxxxxxx] another glass of wine
[00:38] exxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: gawwwwsh
[00:39] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: [Axxx], youe account is over 4 years old - you really SHOULD know better than that.

She really, really should.

[00:39] mxxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: muted and getting ready to send a report to LL.... I'm sick of that crap.
[00:40] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and she's doing it in all her groups....
[00:41] Exxxxxxxx Kxxxxxxxx: another one..
[00:41] Axxxxxxxxxxxx Sxxxxxxx: ugh, has to wait to group profile loads
[00:41] Axxxxxxxxxxxx Sxxxxxxx: she left group chat already
[00:41] mxxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: yep, this will be the 6th group that has popped up for me were she's posted it, in less than 5 minutes
[00:41] Exxxxxxxx Kxxxxxxxx: she spammed shoenique group chat too
[00:42] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: "oh thank you for giving us this valuable information, you are AMAZING!" <<< I just see these spammers as total attention whores seeking gratitude and a few shining moments of recognition.
[00:42] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: so far i'm only getting it here now
[00:42] Axxxxxxxxxxxx Sxxxxxxx: is any other mod on that has group profile already opened up and populated
[00:42] mxxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: I was just starting to unmute my group chats too.


But we weren't done yet.

[00:42] kxx Txxx: I got this message from another group. PLEASE READ.
[00:42] kxx Txxx: Warning! This is a bad one. Please pass this message out to as many friends and groups as you can. If anyone passes you a gift from someone you know or dont know which may be called "stick21" delete it immediately. This thing is nasty! Do not rez it or wear it and if possible do not accept it. It does real damage to your pc and SL via spamming your viewer and emails which if opened shut your pc down.
[00:42] Axxxxxxxxxxxx Sxxxxxxx: [Kxx] don't
[00:42] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: [Kxx], DON;T DO IT
[00:42] Mxxx Gxxxxxxxx: wooow
[00:42] Exxxxxxxx Kxxxxxxxx: oh god
[00:42] exxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: noooooooooooooo
[00:42] Dxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: ohhh ffs
[00:42] fxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: omg
[00:42] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: OFGS!
[00:42] Sxxxxxx Dxxxxxx: X(
[00:42] Pxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: too late
[00:42] Exxxxxxxx Kxxxxxxxx: permanent ban all


It'd be nice, but the problem with these kinds of messages is people honestly think they're helping, somehow, by not doing the five minutes of research it would take to verify it as a bad thing to repost. They just feel this helpful urge, and for the most part, they're good people. Just...confused people who don't fact-check.

[00:42] Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: hoax
[00:42] mxxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: muted
[00:42] Exxxxxxxx Kxxxxxxxx: [axxxx]..do something
[00:42] exxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: that's it im outta here, this gon be a long morning
[00:43] Mxxx Gxxxxxxxx: hey guys, did you hear about this thing called...
[00:43] exxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol
[00:43] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: [Kxx] has a real last name, too, and should know better
[00:43] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: LOL [Mxxx]
[00:43] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: almost 5 years in SL and STILL falling for thios garbage [Kxx]?...shame on you
[00:43] Lxxxxxxxx Fxxxxxx: maybe its a spam in itself
[00:43] mxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: geeeez is nothing but a retarded spam lol
[00:43] lxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: you all know.. that thereis not a problem at all if someone post a warning and NO ONE reacts to it.. right? its the people who respond to it all the time that makes this groups go bad
[00:43] kxx Txxx: What did I do wrong?


So many things. Didn't pay attention to chat, didn't see this had been posted before, didn't bother tuning in yesterday when this was an even bigger issue of this one message--THIS ONE MESSAGE, WORD FOR FRIGGIN' WORD--was being passed on until the mods closed down group chat for several hours...

[00:44] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: *attention whore* (my last words on the subject)
[00:44] mxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: read the rules of this group!
[00:44] kxx Txxx: I don't get it.
[00:44] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: read what you sent...you REALLY believe that crap?
[00:44] Hxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: IF only it were the last words of everyone one on it ... the after spam shockwave is far more than the singular posts of spam
[00:45] Axxxxxxxxxxxx Sxxxxxxx: guys, [Kxx] cannot see the group chat now.
[00:45] mxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: NOT ALLOWED in chat:
Store ads/spam/self-promotion
3 lines MAX posting!
MP Links: Inworld Only
Criticizing stores/gifts
Drama/rudeness
Promoters
Discos-Clubs-DJs
Breedables
Land rental/sale
Adult stores/items
Gambling
Malls-Franchises
Roleplay
Car/motor-AO-Pay MM/LBs

Pls don't link your blog in chat
[00:45] mxxxxxxx Hxxxxxxxxx: group chat was closed earlier today cause it got so out of hand.
[00:45] Exxxxxxxx Kxxxxxxxx: thank God..
[00:45] lxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: they afterspam... because they like the attention they got with it..so they do it again and again ...just because you all react to it like this.
[00:45] Axxxxxxxxxxxx Sxxxxxxx: and this is a warning to eveyrone else ..I WILL and HAVE EJECTED people already
[00:45] Fxxxxx Axxxxxxxx: ALso not allowed for anyone but a MODERATOR to copyu and paste the group guifelines.
[00:46] Exxxxxxxx Kxxxxxxxx: yes...agree...
[00:46] lxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: if no one reacts..there is no fun for these people. and it stops
[00:46] mxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: ...... i'M JUST SAYING GEEEZ RELAX DUUUUDE!
[00:46] Hxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: the afterspam shockwave is everyone reacting ;)
[00:46] lxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: exactly heron. so lets just dont.
[00:47] Hxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol

That sounds really bad. I'm glad I missed it, I think.

[00:47] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: i think you'd have reacted if you were here when it was nonstop, and nobody could post anything else
[00:48] Mxxx Gxxxxxxxx: wow, that sounds awful
[00:48] Mxxx Gxxxxxxxx: at least it's quieter now, from people being kicked
[00:48] Ixxxxx Wxxxxxxx: lol
[00:48] lxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: It's not any quieter, you guys won't shh lol
[00:48] Mxxx Sxxxxxxxx: they've moved on to other groups.. lol
[00:48] Axxxxxxxxx Lxxxxxxxx: yeah...group chat was closed for hrs lasst night because of it all


And that's the heart and soul of what I wanted to post. We've seen spam "warnings" before--things that code manifestly can't do, or objects that ask for Linden access when they're attached (which is generally always an easy "no" and unattach to solve, but there are dim people on the grid). And I won't say that there are no malicious folks in SL.

But by and large, these "warnings" are almost always hoaxes, and cause more drama than they solve in any group they're posted. And this one particularly--this one message seems to be another that's taken the net by storm. I've gotten notices from groups, heard about this in chat, and with only one exception it's been "OMG PLZ THIS IS AWFUL THING". When in reality, it's just...nothing.

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