Sunday, February 22, 2015

never let a bad day be enough to go and talk you into giving up

Started in the middle of something, as per usual...

[18:50] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: what is the point of boobs and asses as big as people wear them
[18:50] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I just dont even get it

Can we say, "here we go again"?

[18:50] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Maybe they like them
[18:50] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: or maybe they look that way in real life
[18:50] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol
[18:50] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: DOUBTFUL
[18:51] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: not that many
[18:51] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: maybe a few MIGHT

I'll go on record as saying I don't like Miss T, here. She's allowed to hold the opinion, I know I've said similar things, but for the most part I say it about people wandering around Caledon, or on PG shopping sims wearing below the bare minimum. Still, because of where this goes, I thought I'd post it, because this is not just a case of 'how can they wear that', but a judgement on an entirely presumed lifestyle.

[18:51] Lxxxx Sxxxxxx: [Txxxx], you are not alone in that puzzlement. lol
[18:51] Bxxxxx Mxxxxxxxx: a lot of people think that's what is sexy lol
[18:51] cxxxx Kxxxxx: don't let people bully you

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. But the flip side of that is everyone is also entitled to react to that opinion. And if people don't like your opinions, they're allowed to say that too. (I'd offer my own blog up as a prime example of that; I've made more enemies than friends, because I have made, and likely will continue to make in the future, harsh judgments of attire, texture, and shape.)

[18:51] jxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: different folks different stroke I am sure plenty of people in SL wouldn't understand why at times I run around as a femboi
[18:51] Dxxxxx Sxxxx: I think some of the extremes of SL are like my SL extremes... womething I wish I could do without repercussions that I do not desire to have any part of
[18:51] Ixxxxxxx Jxxxxxxxxx: to each their own...i like me, but others may's what makes YOU happy
[18:51] bxxxxx Cxxxxxx: well it's your SL you are entitled to do what you please

Well, within limits, there are rules of behavior after all...but those are for the most part tailored to RL criminal acts which are not allowed.

[18:51] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: its freakish.. and im no architect but ankles that small? Im sorry ... structurally unsound
[18:52] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Um freakish?

And here the judgment starts in full effect. All right, I've done this too, I own it, I take responsibility for it--I firmly believe that if you're going to have prim feet and/or shoes, for the love of all gods please match the skin tone, and please adjust the ankle to the same width as the leg itself. Because otherwise it looks like one is trying to walk on artificially severed appendages, and...that's just disturbing.

But that's not what she means here, is it? The ankles are an afterthought. What she's saying is that very large breasts, whether or not they have "natural" sag or bounce, are of themselves a freakish addition, like having eight legs or a parasitic twin. And saying things are "freaky" or "freakish" is still common parlance, but at one time it meant something very specific: extra limbs, extra heads, extra fingers and toes. Things beyond the normal experience, people who were not "as us"--or at least, as the typical country or city folk the freakshows played to.

Traveling carnivals also had rides, food stands, games of chance, dancers, sword swallowers, magicians--but there were many people in the US and abroad for whom being a full-time "freak" was their occupation. Now it's 2015, and we've been told over and over, these are just 'extras', these are just genetic "mistakes", maybe, it happens when cells divide...but now large breasts are lumped in with the other traditional "freaks" of the sideshows?

[18:52] Dxxxxx Sxxxx: example: I have wanted full body tattoo coverage since I was a SMALL child, something that is VERY unlikely to happen in my RL but happens often in my SL

Yeah, I have one perpetual sigattachment I wear, a winged back tattoo--I've had it since my first few months in SL. In fact, when tattoo layers came around, I contacted the maker to see if she'd be interested in converting it over to a tattoo layer for me. Will I ever get that back tattoo in RL? I won't deny I've been tempted, but I probably won't, just for cost alone.

[18:52] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yeah
[18:52] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: a bit
[18:52] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: That's very harsh
[18:52] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: ~shrugs~
[18:52] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: And not very nice

It is harsh, and it isn't nice. I do think "nice" as a concept is rather overused, and occasionally trite as a concept, but is it just more politically correct to say their 'whatever' could be smaller, when we're talking about peoples' personal parts? Whether those parts are virtual or not? Or should we just accept that that's how they want to look? Where's the correct protocol with inflatable bits, anyway?

[18:52] bxxxxx Cxxxxxx: that's the awesome thing about SL is you are able to be as creative as you want to be :)
[18:52] rxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I would think SL is a place to express an inner desire / want you can't have IRL xD
[18:52] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: srry but seeing it so much i just dont get it
[18:53] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Well get over it
[18:53] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: im guessing there is a reason
[18:53] bxxxxx Cxxxxxx: exactly [Rxxx]
[18:53] Lxxxx Sxxxxxx: While everyone is jumping at the chance to tell [Txxxx] that everyone has the right to do as they please, you are forgetting that [Txxxx] has the right to her own opinions. You don't have to agree with her.

No, we don't, obviously, but as I said earlier, she has the chance to air her voice; we have the chance to react.

[18:53] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Yes but I don't really like people calling my friends "freaks"
[18:53] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: indeed
[18:53] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i didnt say stop
[18:53] Axxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i seen someone who looked like niki minaj in here did i say rude things did i chuckle to myself yes
[18:53] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i just asked WHY?

Well, and I suppose that's fair. And at least she voiced her opinion of these "freaks" in a group that's for general freebies and gifts, not implants and mesh bodies. I...guess that's a good thing? Sort of?

[18:54] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol
[18:54] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: you have to

[18:53] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I don't think that's very nice
[18:54] Bxxxxx Mxxxxxxxx: And back to our regularly scheduled programming...
[18:54] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: men talk too
[18:54] Axxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but i didn't say anything
[18:54] Lxxxx Sxxxxxx: [Bxxxx], did she NAME your friends? If not then that is a strawman argument and you are bashing her while griping about her allegedly (but not really) bashing your 'friends'

Eh, I think that's six of one, half a dozen of the other, really. What the one lass is objecting to is women with large breasts being called freaks. She has friends who wear implants. Thus, according to Miss T, they'd be freaks. She objects to Miss T's labeling them such.

That's not a strawman argument, that's a pretty straight-forward reaction.

[18:54] jxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: [Lxxxx] I don't think anyone said she doesn't did they? I know I didn't I just expressed my own opinion which happens to conflict with hers.
[18:54] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Men like it too
[18:54] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: no
[18:54] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: not as many as yall think
[18:54] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol

So...not only is Miss T saying that all wearers of implants and mesh bodies are "freaks", but now she's stating that most men despise women who wear mesh breasts and mesh butts? Really?

I think we're out of rope to hand you, you might just have to hang yourself on what you have, Miss.

[18:54] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Oh So I could come in here and say all skinny bitches are freaks
[18:54] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: they talk about it
[18:54] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: And it's fine?????
[18:54] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but also say most them do it to get .. well.. and they know they are easy

So, all women who wear mesh breasts and mesh busts are sluts, you say. On top of everything else. Go on.

[18:54] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I don't think so
[18:55] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: OMG
[18:55] Lxxxx Sxxxxxx: And [Bxxxx], if people CHOOSE to look like freaks, they are hardly in a position to gripe if someone calls them that.

Don't help.

[18:55] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yes you could
[18:55] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: im not skinny
[18:55] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: YEA all big girls are whores [Txxxx]
[18:55] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: that's right
[18:55] Lxxxx Sxxxxxx: If you rob banks are we not allowed to call you a bank roober because it's politically incorrect or might offend you?

"Robber", but now we're getting into specious arguments. You're basically making her point.

[18:55] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: but i am thinking yes you could say that
[18:55] Ixxxxxxx Jxxxxxxxxx: lol i am skinny...and to a point a freak lol
[18:55] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: no
[18:55] Lxxxx Sxxxxxx: If you don't want to be called a bank robber, don't rob banks.

Are you on Miss T's side? Wait, this is also you:

[18:51] Lxxxx Sxxxxxx: [Txxxx], you are not alone in that puzzlement. lol

You ARE!

[18:55] Bxxxxx Mxxxxxxxx: Okay, this is a no win subject ATM
[18:55] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: No, if you rob a bank you're a bank robber
[18:55] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Lawd
[18:55] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i said that many men see them as doing it to put out the message
[18:55] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i mean draw attention there for what
[18:56] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: to say UHH no touch?
[18:56] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: lol
[18:56] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: yeah

Yeah. We get it. You're a prude. Move on.

[18:56] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Because you have a large ass you're a whore?
[18:56] cxxxxx Txxxxx: blinks
[18:56] lxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Wooooah guys.... come on now. Let's chillax and get back to shopping okay?
[18:56] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Do you tell people in real life that?
[18:57] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: Cause I think you're about to get in some real trouble if you do

Seriously. This is NOT something you just walk up to people and say out loud in that tone. Plus, this is EXACTLY the sort of victim-blaming our culture seems trapped in. "She had on a sexy dress, that's why she was raped." "She was out late, that's why she was assaulted." "She had large breasts, of course she was sexually harassed." This kind of thinking blames the woman for being in front of the man's eyes, and not the man for doing something criminal and morally reprehensible.

Even in SL, this is something we should try to curtail.

[18:57] Bxxxxx Mxxxxxxxx: Can we please change topics?
[18:57] dxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: People shouldn't worry so much about what others think and live your life the way you see fit. You are never going to please everyone and will only make yourself miserable and those around you as well if you try.
[18:57] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I do

I find that very, very difficult to believe. Or, if that is true, then she gets yelled at a lot by women who aren't prostitutes and don't like being called one to their faces.

[18:57] Vxxxxx Kxxxx: stop it before the chat closes again
[18:57] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and no i dont get in RL trouble
[18:57] Mxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: i tell them GYM its 2015

Yeah, depending on the neighborhood she lives in, I really don't believe this. She'd be flipped attitude at the least, or outright slapped in the face for her presumption. 'Get your fat ass to a gym'? Seriously?

[18:57] Lxxxx Sxxxxxx: If my RL friends and family members dressed and behaved like many folks in SL do, you bet I'd tell them they were whorish.
[18:57] Rxxxxx Sxxxxxxxxxx: [Bxxxxx] and [Txxxx] if want to continue this conversation i think the proper place is a im not in here
[18:57] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: I'm over it
[18:58] bxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: :X
[18:59] Ixxxxxxx Jxxxxxxxxx: :P likes being freakish lol

Well, and sometimes I do too. Today, for instance, I was very prim and proper, in a floor-length gown with long sleeves, hair in a precise bun, and fawn brocade boots, because I was hunting roses across Caledon. When I arrived back at the current crypt home, I exchanged that for a charcoal hoody, torn black jeans, studded platform boots, and a miniskirt.

To that end, though, it's obvious where Miss T's thought processes are going here. Have a large ass, have bigger boobs, you're a streetwalker. In her mind, you're good for only one thing, and that means you don't respect yourself, men don't respect you, and other women are going to treat you like the dirt you so clearly--to her--are.

And, granted, there are a lot of extremes in SL, throughout all our communities. There are places I don't want to go with my avatar in any mode of dress. There are shapes and styles of avatars I won't purchase, or wear. But to me, that's personal preference.

I've complained about a lot of things. I complain about avatar appearance. I've openly despised the whole pouty fish-lips, wide-saddle form of female we seem stricken with currently, and I doubt that's going to change. But that's not because I think they look like prostitutes, or think the women in those shapes are inherently easy to sleep with. It's because I think that shape and style makes them look desperately unhappy, just a soul-deep, cynical misery that pervades outward from the skin. And I do not believe everyone who wears that shape or those specifically designed skins are that desperately unhappy, that riddled with hatred and bile. I think they're deliberately making themselves unattractive--to themselves if no one else--but my standards are not theirs, obviously, and that's pretty much the end of the assumption line.

Miss T took it farther. To her, Ms. Charms

is exactly the same as Ms. Fuller

and both are exactly the same as this unidentified street prostitute?

Why? For that matter, why link the three in the first place? And why such utter loathing for all three?

(Photo credits: I cannot track down the photographer for the Chelsie Charms shot; but I will link her website [should you feel compelled to dig further, be warned it is VERY NSFW]. Ms. Fuller's photographer has been lost to the ages, as far as I know, but I originally found her cabinet card on the Cvltnation site. And John Mac took the unidentified shot of the prostitute in 2005, for this photo forum.)

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