Saturday, August 18, 2012

tracing lines to what connects me and binds me to (pt. II)

Picking up where we left off...

[Help] Crimson-Darke: Because they made a product that millions wanted to use
[Help] Crimson-Darke: That is why they are number 1


True, and even with their flaws, companies like Blizzard are success stories that all game companies want to have. They want their game to have the unpredictable, magic something that makes millions want to play that game over all others...at least for a while.

[Help] Metal Raven: I don't like Blizzard because they don't seem to grasp the concept of "Our customers got us to where we are now, why is it a bad idea to gouge them and throw away our core fanbase for the crowds that give us more money"
[Help] Ambient Light: You mean a product that's been done in dozens of iterations before?
[Help] Metal Raven: They got to where they were because they disregarded everything their core fanbase said in favor of the crowds that said "we have more money!"
[Help] Firebomb: And they know it, and they treat you like it. "We're the ebst. You wanna leave? We don't care. We have millions of you.
[Help] Temporal Surgeon: Why do people always beeline for "jealousy" to explain why people dislike something? Jealousy only occasionally factors in to complaints about something


Yeah, that confuses me, too, but it's another common understanding trope--"You don't get this thing/you're talking down this thing, so you must be jealous of it". That doesn't always work, yet a lot of folks fall into this conventional thinking rut anyway.

[[Help] Temporal Surgeon: Since we're playing armchair psychologist I strongly suspect people claim "jealousy" in order to try to summarily discredit complaints and act like they're doing nothing wrong

I think that's a fair assessment, too. It's always easier to shift blame; some folks are very, very good at that. (It's my biggest personality flaw, I openly admit this--it's very easy for me to shift blame, and it's been the constant struggle of my entire existence to accept when I'm at fault, keep that fault, and apologize if I need to.

But it's far from easy, and I'm speaking as someone who (possibly overly) analyzes her actions. What about everyone else, who usually don't bother--or don't have the life skills to analyze their own actions, anyway?

[Help] Damgun: Bliz WAS a great company. Now they're just a division.

Of who?

[Help] Third Discipline: And if they did, so what? Why hate them for it?
[Help] Temporal Surgeon: Third Discipline - What people are doing here isn't "hate." You are throwing out ad hominem attacks like it's candy to try to shut down discussion.


This happens a lot, too.

[Help] Third Discipline: Who's devils advocating? All I asked is why you guys are wasting time hating on a company when all you have to do is simply not pay them money. Like I do.
[Help] Third Discipline: Learn what ad hominem is. I haven't insulted anyone

And, as with every internet discussion, the conversation has turned from game debate, to actual debate debate, with tactics and definitions. You'd think folks would have tired of this long ago, but it keeps coming up.

[Help] Temporal Surgeon: People here aren't "hating" or "jealous." They are making some pretty reasonable criticisms of Blizzard.
[Help] Metal Raven: There's honestly nothing to be jealous about when it comes to blizz. Are they rich, rolling in money and arguably doing fairly well? well, sure.
[Help] M'rtin of Mars: If this argument gets any more meta it'll start eating its own tail.
[Help] daedrius warbrand: and there goes help chat again, lol

Oh, it was there long ago.

[Help] Temporal Surgeon: Ad hominem is not an insult. Ad hominem is an argument that targets the credibility of someone on the basis of some personal attribute.
[Help] Vibrobeast: ok fine. they somehow turned gold into paper

[Help] Metal Raven: I'm bowing out of the argument and going back to actually helping people :p


You are wiser than most of us, gentlebeing.

[Help] Third Discipline: You are correct, "I wouldn't trust Blizzard with my granny's ashes" isn't hate, it'
s just a legit argument
[Help] Metal Raven: Sure [Help] Third Discipline rolls eyes
[Help] Touchup: Yes--can you guys go argue this in a private channel labeled "Debates Etc"?


Wait, we have that channel??

[Help] Rita Ramjet: I don't think CoH is going to last, its just another WoW clone.

And now we've reached the level of players trolling the channel. Because, seriously, that's not even close to accurate. While both games premiered the same year, City of Heroes launched in Aprille of 2004, with WoW following in November.

[Help] Touchup: *tabs out of help before eyes bleed*
[Help] Vibrobeast: o.0 CoH came first
[Help] Wrath Talon: coh is a wow clone?????? since when????
[Help] Ambient Light: Rita, I... I really hope you were being sarcastic there.
[Help] Rita Ramjet: Wow was the first MMO


Not even close to close. Mazewar was the first graphical-based cooperative experience, being introduced in 1974, but it was pretty much cable-spined to the early ARPANet, and was close to being another form of online bulletin board, really. There were various MUDs in between, which were, again, essentially just online roleplay bulletin boards. The first quote-unquote "real" MMO--in sense of scale, at this point, the "massive" in "massively multiplayer role-playing game"--was Neverwinter Nights, which premiered in 1991.

[Help] daedrius warbrand: ...... don't take the bait

Yeah, because seriously, they have to be trolling.

[Help] Wrath Talon: Rita stop trolling
[Help] Rita Ramjet jiggles the bait


And now we have the admission.

[Help] Third Discipline: I'm not talking about legit or people talking about why they don't like a Blizzard product. I'm strictly talking about people who say things like "I wouldn't trust Blizzard with my granny's ashes". If you have legit complaints, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking about those who simply hate.
[Help] Damgun: I'm sorry, but Pandara or Pandarin or whatever is worthy of a good mocking.


That's actually a fair point.

[Help] Damgun: That's like saying every FPS is a Wolfenstein clone. There is no MMO quite like COH.

*snerks* No, but seriously, that's just an amusing concept. What if everything was a Wolfenstein clone? How often do we have games that are now throwing back to the days of the side-scroller? Both Minecraft and Trials: Evolution have player-made maps that make both games side-scrolling--to a limited extent in Minecraft, a much larger extent in Trials.

[Help] Techpoison: what clone do you call champions online?

And that one gets weird, because Cryptic--the company that runs Champions--sold off City of Heroes to NCSoft, who now runs it...but then ran off and created Champions. So...in essence, Champions is a clone of City of Heroes.

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