And we continue after the posting of Miss [Pxxxxx]'s notice:
[00:09] Nxxxx Rxxx: Well if I should ever be in a position to own my own sim, I don't think I'd want to rent parcels. I could do without the headache of tenants.None of us did. It's just Miss [Pxxxxx]'s inference that we had.
[00:09] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: Oh man....she went there....
[00:09] Zxxxxxxx Wxxxxxx Funny I just gave a lecture on Non-Attachment on Friday. It was very well received
[00:09] Nxxxx Rxxx: I suspect RL landlords find rent issues a big problem too.
[00:10] Mxxx Mxxxxxxx: 30,000 prims and me
[00:10] Lxxx Sxxxxx: That could be a movie.
[00:11] Emilly Orr: And no one said anything about lost regions but you.
[00:11] nxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: at no point, ms [Pxxxxx], did I say YOU were responsible for lost regions
[00:11] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: I beg of you Miss [Exxxxxxxx], don't do this, it will not end well or happily.Actually, historically, it looked like a lot of things.
[00:12] Lxxx Sxxxxx: You're not even flying the battle flag, so most people probably won't recognize it.
[00:12] Nxxxx Rxxx: It's a bit late now, [Cx].
[00:12] Emilly Orr: What I said was, the only absolute, firm, CONfirmed reason Des evicts people is nonpayment of rent. There have likely been others, but that is the only reason I can state, from personal proof (not my being evicted, but having seen the aftermath and spoken with Des) of my own.
[00:12] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Not my problem if people don't know what the flag of the Confederacy looked like.
The one best-known by most, especially in the south, was originally the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia and was a square insignia. To make it more 'traditional' the design was stretched to fit a rectangular field:
The one that Miss [Pxxxxx] seemed intent on flying is colloquially known as the "Stars and Bars" and was designed originally by Nicola Marschall in 1861. Marschall based it on the Austrian flag and it was originally flown over the then-capitol of the Confederacy, Montgovery, Alabama:
But there are others.
[00:13] Lxxx Sxxxxx: No, but you want to make it Des' problem.It is, and it always will be, but not for the first time I started wondering if all we're managing to do is stand around a hole telling Miss [Pxxxxx] there's a hole, while she chucks down many sharp things into the hole and prepares to jump in.
[00:13] Emilly Orr: The inference I was hoping you would gather from that is that Des does not spontaneously ban people. He bends over backwards to *avoid* banning people.
[00:13] Lxxx Sxxxxx: You want to cause suffering.
[00:13] Lxxx Sxxxxx: And you are going to.
[00:13] Emilly Orr: And drama.
[00:13] Emilly Orr: And I can't see a single reason why.
[00:13] Zxxxxxxx Wxxxxxx: You have picked a hell of a hill to die on, I will give you that
[00:13] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I don't know why.
[00:13] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: The right to create sorrow for oneself, is among the freedom of choice that each individual has. Sometimes a person feels they have to walk that road. Life is a process of choices.
[00:14] Emilly Orr: Then...mayhap...brew a strong pot of tea, and lay down until this passes?My brain. "Unkind to black people". You know, as opposed to unkind to the Chinese, or Hispanics, or natives. I mean, hey, be a proud Southerner and fly a racist symbol of the South's recession from the United States, a battle y'all *LOST*, but by all means, don't fly a version of that racist symbol that might offend the blacks. Can't have that, you're a civilized racist. Sheesh.
[00:14] nxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: and since it is not the Battle Flag, with all it's baggage, you might not get banned for it.... but I don't make the rules
[00:14] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: This all made sense when I started but now I'm just depressed.
[00:14] Mxxx Mxxxxxxx: take down the flag and go to bed
[00:14] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I would not fly the battle flag. That would be unkind to black people.
[00:15] Emilly Orr: .....
[00:15] Lxxx Sxxxxx: And you know full well when Des made the new rule.So does Des.
[00:15] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: please, don't fly that one either....just head to bed, rest....
[00:15] Lxxx Sxxxxx: That he was commenting on the BATTLE FLAG THAT EVERYONE THINKS OF.
[00:15] nxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: ok... just an uneducated Brit here
[00:16] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: either flag not...a...good...thing.
[00:16] Lxxx Sxxxxx: The "battle flag" that most people think of as the "Confederate flag" is actually a regimental flag. Not the governmental one.
[00:16] Emilly Orr: I think there are many who will not care.
[00:16] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: This is the Confederate flag:
[00:16] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: some of us know both.
[00:17] Emilly Orr: That you are defying Des' edict, deliberately, AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY, is just baffling.
[00:17] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx): and I consider them equivalent.
[00:17] Caissa McCarey (lorelai.mccarey): some people just have a knee-jerk reaction of 'you're not the boss of me"?I think that's somewhat specious to state--because by that reasoning, the US flag has stood for war, medical experimentation on prisoners, medical experimentation on the unwilling black people, secrecy and lies, bigotry and homophobia for far longer.
[00:17] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Yes, and many of them are three years old.
[00:18] Lxxxxxx Mxxxxxx: well, that too
[00:18] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: This is the flag of one regiment (stretched out) and later adopted by a bunch of guys in the 2nd KKK: It made sense when I started.
[00:18] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Confederate_Rebel_Flag.svg
[00:18] Emilly Orr: So...why do you wish to support the KKK?
[00:18] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: No.
[00:18] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: [Exxxxxxxx], what did I just say, I consider all flags of the confederacy to be equivalent.
[00:19] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Well, that magical thinking.
[00:19] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Your thinking is less magical, how?
[00:19] Axxxxxxx Lxxxxxx: i agree with whoever it it that recently said "we should have let the south seceed when we had the chance" good grief!
[00:19] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: That does seem to be the theme tonight.
[00:19] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: now sure, there are people who only know the stars and bars...but I know the others as well....and personally, I don't want to see any of them.
[00:19] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Did you know that the US Flag stood for slavery for 70 years?
[00:19] nxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx is going to stop being in this conversation (but keep watching)... people are getting less calm nowYes, yes she did. And apparently willingly to boot--because if she can't argue rationally by merit, she can change the subject and blame everyone else for her personal downfalls. How very Trumpian of her.
[00:19] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: So let's ban the US flag
[00:19] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: It's a symbol of hate.
[00:19] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: You did not go there.
[00:20] Lxxx Sxxxxx: The US flag has also changed since then.When? When did it make sense?
[00:20] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: Irrelevant to Des's decision.
[00:20] Emilly Orr: I refuse to entertain arguments hinging on whataboutism. They're spurious and invalidate the main point.
[00:21] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Your "my argument made sense when I started it" isn't making any more sense now.
[00:21] Emilly Orr: It's really not.
[00:22] Lxxx Sxxxxx: And it never did.
[00:22] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: yes it did
[00:22] Lxxx Sxxxxx: It was a knee-jerk reaction to liberties you thought you had being brought to light that you don't.I admit, at this point I started to feel we were browbeating her, with lines line these. But she wasn't done yet.
[00:22] Emilly Orr: Especially when all you have to do is just take it down and stop worrying.
[00:23] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: look, you take the flag down and forget everything, then we can all be happy friends, you can be the cute drowgirl of stormhold and all is good.
[00:24] Emilly Orr: You still have freedom of expression, you still have freedom of speech as long as you don't spout hate speech, racism, or sexism.Who, in any of this, ever said you were a hypocrite??
[00:24] Emilly Orr: All fine.
[00:24] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Or you can keep arguing and we'll just shake our heads wondering why that had to happen.
[00:24] Axxxxxxx Lxxxxxx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNkjDuSVXiE&t=188s
[00:24] Emilly Orr: And eventually wander off, tired of the fight that doesn't have to be one, and you'll be arguing with yourself.
[00:25] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: Emily, basically a fallacy of Tu quoque.
[00:26] Emilly Orr: Oh, I hadn't heard that phrase before. Yes, exactly.
[00:27] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: So I'm a hypocrite, now too?
[00:27] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: You all hate me.Yep.
[00:27] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I will show you hypocrite.
[00:27] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Who hates you?
[00:27] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: That's likely a red herring.
[00:27] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: no, we're more sad than anything.
[00:28] Emilly Orr: No one hates you.
[00:28] Lxxx Sxxxxx: We wouldn't be arguing to KEEP YOU AROUND if we hated you.
[00:28] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: There's no reason to hate you.
[00:28] Lxxx Sxxxxx: If we hated you, we'd be sending Des emails to come back inworld and get rid of you.
[00:28] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Or [Wxxxx].
[00:28] Emilly Orr: We wouldn't be arguing, period. I generally don't argue with people I don't believe are worth arguing with.
[00:28] Lxxx Sxxxxx: He's named appropriately.
[00:28] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: Bunneh of Wrath.
[00:28] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx can no longer see the train tracks behind us - sooo far off the tracks at this point
We're about here, I think. Maybe a little farther from the tracks, even.
[00:29] Emilly Orr: Pretty much. We derailed some time ago.Is it life in Stormhold that does this to people, or is it just her?
[00:29] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I can't do anything right.
[00:29] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I tried to return all my objects in Caledon and and only half of them went.
[00:29] Emilly Orr: You're fighting a battle you cannot win, that is true. But obviously, you can do things right.
[00:30] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: But the flag is gone now.
[00:30] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: So everyone can be happy
[00:30] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: I suspect you actually do many things right, every day.
[00:30] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Happy! Happy! Happy! Happy!
[00:30] nxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: whoohhh!So did Miss [Pxxxxx].
[00:30] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: Happy to keep you within the citizenry, yes.
[00:31] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: Happy not to see you tying yourself to the train tracks? Yes again.
[00:31] Emilly Orr: So...wait, let me make sure I have this right: we're arguing to keep you here, and not in trouble with the Guvnah, and now you're mad at us because you decided to challenge an estate-wide ban?
[00:32] Axxxxxxx Lxxxxxx: LOL
[00:32] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Oh. I guess I did return everything. It was just an illusion that stuff was still there.
[00:33] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: See? I'm not a hypocrite!
[00:33] Emilly Orr: No one said you were.
[00:35] Lxxxxxx Mxxxxxx: no, I believe he just pointed out a specific logical fallacy being used
[00:35] Emilly Orr: No, he didn't. He was telling me that whataboutism is a poor renaming of tu quoque, a phrase I had never heard. And I told him he was right.
[00:35] Wxxxxxxxx Jxxxxxxx: Nope. I said you used a Tu quoque fallacy in an argument. I said nothing about what you ARE.
[00:35] Emilly Orr: You have to listen to all the words.
[00:35] Lxxxxxx Mxxxxxx: ah, missed that part
[00:37] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I don't know why I returned my house. I loved my house.And then...a beacon of faint hope in the distance:
[00:37] Emilly Orr: I don't know, either. I think a lot of what you've done tonight falls into 'reaction', not 'considered action'.
[00:38] Lxxx Sxxxxx: I'm pretty sure you're not the only one confused by this.
[00:38] Fxxxxxxx Oxxxxx: I've done that before.
[00:38] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: if you love it, put it back up and stay with us.
[00:38] Emilly Orr: I have, too.
[00:38] Lxxxxxxx Pxxxxxx: Not your house ... *sigh*
[00:38] Emilly Orr: I've also returned many houses. And skyboxes. There's nothing quite like falling into the neighbor's yard from a great height.
[00:39] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: screaming all the way down is tradition.
[00:39] Emilly Orr: I am a fan of tradition.
[00:39] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I hope you were not naked when you fell there.
[00:39] Emilly Orr: Only once.
[00:39] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I am sorry.
[00:39] Fxxxxxxx Oxxxxx: Returned all the underwater decorations, streets and streetlamps a few months back
[00:39] Lxxxxxx Mxxxxxx: this is why I try not to edit mine anymore. It always ends with me having to place a new one and never quite getting it in the same spot
[00:39] Axxxxxxx Lxxxxxx: ok this has extended too far into the realm of "makes no sense at all" FTSm we out
[00:40] Emilly Orr: It helped that I was friends with the neighbor, at least.
[00:40] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: You can drag the items out of Lost and Found, right click them and select Restore to Last Position if you are using Firestorm and if the items are CopyThey never do.
[00:40] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: This all made sense at first. I think it may have been depressed person logic.
[00:40] nxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Rxxxxxxx: thank you, Ms [Pxxxxx], that must have taken some effrt to say
[00:40] Lxxx Sxxxxx: It may have been.
[00:40] Fxxxxxxx Oxxxxx: [Gxxx], where were you with that advice a few months back?
[00:40] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx grins
[00:40] Emilly Orr: Ah, depression. Yes, the voices never tell you true things.
[00:41] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: I was just about to say that myself, [Fxxxxxxx]Ouch. That must have taken some time to replace even with this trick.
[00:42] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: I once returned every infrastructure prim on public land in St John Parish. I am an expert at restoration now!
[00:42] Fxxxxxxx Oxxxxx: Three hours of work, POOF, in the lost and found folder. Had to start all over. Now I find out about Restore To Last.(Continued in part five.)
[00:42] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Restore doesn't always work, but when it does, it is happier times.
[00:42] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: Right - the items need to be Copy
[00:43] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: AND you need to make sure that rezzing is enabled on the parcel at 0,0,0 on the sim!
[00:43] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: If you disable rezzing there, Restore to Last Position will not work
[00:43] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I'm looking in my lost and found folder
[00:43] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: Anywhere in the entire sim
[00:44] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: If it's empty Miss [Pxxxxx] you might need to relog
[00:44] Gxxxxxxxx Rxxx: Sometimes items don't appear there right away. But a relog fixes it.
[00:44] Fxxxxxxx Oxxxxx: Right, time to head out. Just realized the time.
[00:45] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I will do that.
[00:45] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: Thank you
[00:47] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Time is an illusion.
[00:47] Lxxx Sxxxxx: 1:47 AM, doubly so.
[00:48] Cxxxxxxxxx Cxxxxxxx: Indeed.
[00:52] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: In the future I will try to keep my episodes to my self.
[00:53] Lxxx Sxxxxx: I think your heart was in the right place.
[00:54] Exxxxxxxx Pxxxxx: I'm just going to put my house back. I'm sorry.
[00:56] Lxxx Sxxxxx: I think those of us in sleepy-time zones all need to get to that.
[00:57] Lxxx Sxxxxx: Get some rest.